Comments on: Mass. Panel Calls For Increasing Mandatory School Age http://www.wbur.org/2009/10/21/dropout-report WBUR is Boston's NPR News Station, featuring NPR news and programs such as Car Talk, On Point, Here & Now, Only A Game and Radio Boston. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:31:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: John Earl http://www.wbur.org/2009/10/21/dropout-report/comment-page-1#comment-2596 John Earl Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:51:05 +0000 http://www.wbur.org/?p=11251#comment-2596 Mechanics, Truck drivers, carpenters, ironworkers, waitstaff, bartenders, etc do not need high school as we know it--they need trade or union sponsored appreticeships or internships that interest them. Active talented kids do not like sitting and listening--they want to actively do things. I quit in the middle of 10th grade. I have an inate intelligence that has served me well --I would have liked to have had parents who were not poor and promoted education, but I didn't. I still managed to do well without a HS diploma (back when action meant more than a HS diploma). If I had life to live over--I would have got an education in order to join the Airforce and Fly. I almost made it ---I skydive and ski. Please give up trying to force kids to do something they dislike---look to educate them around their major obstacle--their parents. Mechanics, Truck drivers, carpenters, ironworkers, waitstaff, bartenders, etc do not need high school as we know it–they need trade or union sponsored appreticeships or internships that interest them. Active talented kids do not like sitting and listening–they want to actively do things. I quit in the middle of 10th grade. I have an inate intelligence that has served me well –I would have liked to have had parents who were not poor and promoted education, but I didn’t. I still managed to do well without a HS diploma (back when action meant more than a HS diploma). If I had life to live over–I would have got an education in order to join the Airforce and Fly. I almost made it —I skydive and ski.

Please give up trying to force kids to do something they dislike—look to educate them around their major obstacle–their parents.

]]> By: David Kimball http://www.wbur.org/2009/10/21/dropout-report/comment-page-1#comment-2562 David Kimball Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:27:56 +0000 http://www.wbur.org/?p=11251#comment-2562 I'm not sure that "forcing" or "mandating" kids to stay in school is going to help. There is a reason they drop out and that reason should be addressed - their motivation to drop out rather than the action. By forcing them to stay where they don't want to be, I'm afraid that's going to have a negative consequence on the rest who do want to stay. Children who are not interested in an education should not be forced in with children who are interested. Segregat them. Give them incentives, but don't just force them to stay. That isn't going to solve anything except give more problems to the teachers as they become nothing but baby-sitters for the problem kids. I’m not sure that “forcing” or “mandating” kids to stay in school is going to help. There is a reason they drop out and that reason should be addressed – their motivation to drop out rather than the action. By forcing them to stay where they don’t want to be, I’m afraid that’s going to have a negative consequence on the rest who do want to stay. Children who are not interested in an education should not be forced in with children who are interested. Segregat them. Give them incentives, but don’t just force them to stay. That isn’t going to solve anything except give more problems to the teachers as they become nothing but baby-sitters for the problem kids.

]]> By: Joe Beckmann http://www.wbur.org/2009/10/21/dropout-report/comment-page-1#comment-2557 Joe Beckmann Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:16:48 +0000 http://www.wbur.org/?p=11251#comment-2557 We know from 208 studies of over 14,000 students, from 1983 to 2001, that dropping out is a symptom of an easily changed totally negative educational treatment schools call "retention." From those studies - and others - we know that "being retained has as much to do with children droppoing out as does their academic achievement. It would be difficult to find another educational practice on which the evidence is so unequivocally negative." (Hattie, 2009) Yet this commission, after a year, can only recommend a law mandating more years of demonstrably inadequate education by those same schools who hold back students to take the same course repeatedly. This is a travesty which would be acceptable only in a country like Haiti, where, not coincidentally, it's author, Representative LaFleur, picked it up. Like other treatments of symptoms rather than underlying causes, it will only cost money. In fact, it will cost at least $20,000,000 (at that rate of 10,000 a year) and more like $50,000,000 for no substantial impact on skills, knowledge, or college readiness, based on hundreds of studies on thousands if not millions of young people victimized by this policy in other states. And there are many, many alternatives to "social promotion" that assure both skills, knowledge, and eventual graduation. Address the cause, not the effect! We know from 208 studies of over 14,000 students, from 1983 to 2001, that dropping out is a symptom of an easily changed totally negative educational treatment schools call “retention.” From those studies – and others – we know that “being retained has as much to do with children droppoing out as does their academic achievement. It would be difficult to find another educational practice on which the evidence is so unequivocally negative.” (Hattie, 2009) Yet this commission, after a year, can only recommend a law mandating more years of demonstrably inadequate education by those same schools who hold back students to take the same course repeatedly. This is a travesty which would be acceptable only in a country like Haiti, where, not coincidentally, it’s author, Representative LaFleur, picked it up. Like other treatments of symptoms rather than underlying causes, it will only cost money. In fact, it will cost at least $20,000,000 (at that rate of 10,000 a year) and more like $50,000,000 for no substantial impact on skills, knowledge, or college readiness, based on hundreds of studies on thousands if not millions of young people victimized by this policy in other states.

And there are many, many alternatives to “social promotion” that assure both skills, knowledge, and eventual graduation. Address the cause, not the effect!

]]> By: Richard Morse http://www.wbur.org/2009/10/21/dropout-report/comment-page-1#comment-2555 Richard Morse Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:53:39 +0000 http://www.wbur.org/?p=11251#comment-2555 This is a great idea. We need to support students who are thinking about dropping out, not just the ones who have dropped out. Mentor programs should be expanded. Good work. Richard This is a great idea. We need to support students who are thinking about dropping out, not just the ones who have dropped out. Mentor programs should be expanded.
Good work. Richard

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