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	<title>Comments on: In Plymouth, Buggies And Birds Battle For Beach Space</title>
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		<title>By: Andrew Phelps</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21256</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Phelps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 19:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21256</guid>
		<description>This comment thread got out of hand and was closed. Several comments were removed for violating our &lt;a href=&quot;/community/rules&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Community Discussion Rules&lt;/a&gt;. I expect civility and respect from the wbur.org community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This comment thread got out of hand and was closed. Several comments were removed for violating our <a href="/community/rules" rel="nofollow">Community Discussion Rules</a>. I expect civility and respect from the wbur.org community.</p>
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		<title>By: Plymouth Resident</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21249</link>
		<dc:creator>Plymouth Resident</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 18:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21249</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, so where do Scott Hecker and Goldenrod make their home?  That&#039;s right, Long Beach.  &quot;The Goldenrod Foundation operates projects from its cottage situated in the coastal dunes of a barrier beach in Plymouth, Massachusetts.&quot; Does Scott park his own SUV in the parking lot and walk the rest of the way to his home??  Seems to me the residents of Long Beach have a vested interest in keeping outsiders aways from their backyard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, so where do Scott Hecker and Goldenrod make their home?  That&#8217;s right, Long Beach.  &#8220;The Goldenrod Foundation operates projects from its cottage situated in the coastal dunes of a barrier beach in Plymouth, Massachusetts.&#8221; Does Scott park his own SUV in the parking lot and walk the rest of the way to his home??  Seems to me the residents of Long Beach have a vested interest in keeping outsiders aways from their backyard.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Mash</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21248</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Mash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 18:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21248</guid>
		<description>These folks are of the same ilk as those who build their party, vacation &#039;homes&#039; so close to the shoreline they need to put them on poles! What&#039;s the point of that!? Can&#039;t wait till gas reaches $5/gal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These folks are of the same ilk as those who build their party, vacation &#8216;homes&#8217; so close to the shoreline they need to put them on poles! What&#8217;s the point of that!? Can&#8217;t wait till gas reaches $5/gal.</p>
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		<title>By: David Boeri</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21236</link>
		<dc:creator>David Boeri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21236</guid>
		<description>David Boeri here. 

Having been berated out on Long Beach last week for being with some f&#039;in&#039; weirdos trying to protect plovers, let me weigh in against the name calling here. A second part of the story that has fascinated and bothered me is the deep divide with no seemingly middle here. Red state vs. blue state, spotted owl vs.logging, snowmobiling vs. snowshoeing, blue collar vs. white collar, and everyone angry and condemning the other side.

I&#039;ve covered a lot of environmental issues. I&#039;ve been a commercial fishermen, I hunted bowhead whales with Eskimo hunters, I went to graduate school in forestry, and covered clear cutting on Indian lands and Mayan lands. I always thought that being an environmentalist also meant communicating with people and understanding their story and perspective.

Most of the ORV owners I met in Plymouth are I like the ORV people I knew on the Cape. Some might have bumper stickers that say &quot;Tastes Like Chicken&quot;. Some, like a former Plymouth selectman, might comment that he won&#039;t be unhappy if piping plovers go the way of the Dodo Bird or Tyrannasaurus Rex. But most of them express a concern for the birds&#039; welfare and are pleased that the birds are making a comback. If they are wrong or misinformed in thinking they can have access to the beach without harming the birds, isn&#039;t that a call for communication or an invitation to talk about the biology of the birds and some environmental principles?

Calling people lazy, ignorant, and selfish doesn&#039;t win anybody over, or do anything to protect piping plovers.

And behavior and attitudes don&#039;t change overnight. Sandy Cotti, who owns Sandy&#039;s restaurant at the start of Long Beach, took her kids out to the beach for years. Generations of Plymouth families have driven out to the point together; some of their best family memories are connected to time spent together, swiwming, fishing, in front of campfires and barbeques, out at the beach.

My children and I fondly remember going out to Race Point with an family in Provincetown; it was their way of getting back to the old days, even if in a four by four.

Personally, I prefer hiking, snowshoeing, birding, and off-road wilderness. 

The piping plovers are a small threatened population worth saving. In the end, there those seeking protection and those wanting to drive out to the beach  during the breeding season may not be able to come to an agreement. State officials and the courts may make the decision instead.

But I can&#039;t help thinking that the failure here has been the lack of outreach by those wanting more restrictions to communicate their concerns beyond fellow conservationists, to explain and educate people about the natural history of plovers, and why, for instance, it&#039;s impractical to re-migrate the plovers to another beach.

That was a well-intentioned if misinformed idea, by the way, and the good news is that the person with the suggestion actually cared enough about the status of piping plovers. Compared to the bumper plovers the other white meat, that&#039;s progress. There are people on the other side that migth be convinced, or that might in some way change your minds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Boeri here. </p>
<p>Having been berated out on Long Beach last week for being with some f&#8217;in&#8217; weirdos trying to protect plovers, let me weigh in against the name calling here. A second part of the story that has fascinated and bothered me is the deep divide with no seemingly middle here. Red state vs. blue state, spotted owl vs.logging, snowmobiling vs. snowshoeing, blue collar vs. white collar, and everyone angry and condemning the other side.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve covered a lot of environmental issues. I&#8217;ve been a commercial fishermen, I hunted bowhead whales with Eskimo hunters, I went to graduate school in forestry, and covered clear cutting on Indian lands and Mayan lands. I always thought that being an environmentalist also meant communicating with people and understanding their story and perspective.</p>
<p>Most of the ORV owners I met in Plymouth are I like the ORV people I knew on the Cape. Some might have bumper stickers that say &#8220;Tastes Like Chicken&#8221;. Some, like a former Plymouth selectman, might comment that he won&#8217;t be unhappy if piping plovers go the way of the Dodo Bird or Tyrannasaurus Rex. But most of them express a concern for the birds&#8217; welfare and are pleased that the birds are making a comback. If they are wrong or misinformed in thinking they can have access to the beach without harming the birds, isn&#8217;t that a call for communication or an invitation to talk about the biology of the birds and some environmental principles?</p>
<p>Calling people lazy, ignorant, and selfish doesn&#8217;t win anybody over, or do anything to protect piping plovers.</p>
<p>And behavior and attitudes don&#8217;t change overnight. Sandy Cotti, who owns Sandy&#8217;s restaurant at the start of Long Beach, took her kids out to the beach for years. Generations of Plymouth families have driven out to the point together; some of their best family memories are connected to time spent together, swiwming, fishing, in front of campfires and barbeques, out at the beach.</p>
<p>My children and I fondly remember going out to Race Point with an family in Provincetown; it was their way of getting back to the old days, even if in a four by four.</p>
<p>Personally, I prefer hiking, snowshoeing, birding, and off-road wilderness. </p>
<p>The piping plovers are a small threatened population worth saving. In the end, there those seeking protection and those wanting to drive out to the beach  during the breeding season may not be able to come to an agreement. State officials and the courts may make the decision instead.</p>
<p>But I can&#8217;t help thinking that the failure here has been the lack of outreach by those wanting more restrictions to communicate their concerns beyond fellow conservationists, to explain and educate people about the natural history of plovers, and why, for instance, it&#8217;s impractical to re-migrate the plovers to another beach.</p>
<p>That was a well-intentioned if misinformed idea, by the way, and the good news is that the person with the suggestion actually cared enough about the status of piping plovers. Compared to the bumper plovers the other white meat, that&#8217;s progress. There are people on the other side that migth be convinced, or that might in some way change your minds.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine Langhoff</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21230</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Langhoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21230</guid>
		<description>Note to Karen Fantasia:

Why do you take your son to the beach, exactly?  To appreciate the beauty of the natural world?  So point out the beauty of these tiny creatures in the video accompanying this article.  Explain that to preserve this experience for his children someday, it&#039;s necessary to walk to his favorite beach spot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note to Karen Fantasia:</p>
<p>Why do you take your son to the beach, exactly?  To appreciate the beauty of the natural world?  So point out the beauty of these tiny creatures in the video accompanying this article.  Explain that to preserve this experience for his children someday, it&#8217;s necessary to walk to his favorite beach spot.</p>
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		<title>By: bobas77</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21228</link>
		<dc:creator>bobas77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21228</guid>
		<description>look at a map.  the beach is a mile out on the penisula.
there is very limited parking in the lot at Plymouth beach.  without this access nobody could get out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>look at a map.  the beach is a mile out on the penisula.<br />
there is very limited parking in the lot at Plymouth beach.  without this access nobody could get out there.</p>
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		<title>By: jemimah</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21227</link>
		<dc:creator>jemimah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21227</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with those who can&#039;t understand why people have to drive onto the beach.  If you want to hang out in your SUV, maybe a rest area would be a better spot.  The beach is for walking on, lying on, picnicking on.  It&#039;s a place where people can be peaceful and revitalize themselves.  We can jog, play paddle games, swim and meander.  Do we really need the noise, fumes and dirt of on- and off-road vehicles?  I bet those are the same people who complain about seagulls and dogs on a beach.  Can we not EVER get away from machines?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with those who can&#8217;t understand why people have to drive onto the beach.  If you want to hang out in your SUV, maybe a rest area would be a better spot.  The beach is for walking on, lying on, picnicking on.  It&#8217;s a place where people can be peaceful and revitalize themselves.  We can jog, play paddle games, swim and meander.  Do we really need the noise, fumes and dirt of on- and off-road vehicles?  I bet those are the same people who complain about seagulls and dogs on a beach.  Can we not EVER get away from machines?</p>
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		<title>By: bobas77</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21223</link>
		<dc:creator>bobas77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21223</guid>
		<description>The Crossover (which is where 4X4 vehicles can drive onto a small fenced-in strip of the beach) opened for the season on Saturday May 29th.
This area was limited to 30-40 vehicles.  this accounts to probably 100 feet of the beach which stretches another mile out to Goose Point.
At some points in past years I believe access was open to over 200 vehicles.   
The following week of the 7th, the Crossover was closed a few days due to the hatching of a nest.  Once the birds moved from their nest the Crossover was once again opened with limited access (30 cars).
The limited access continued until June 24th when another nest hatched and the Crossover was closed.  It has been 20 days since that closure and still the Crossover is not open.
So far this summer the limited access to the beach has been available for only about 23 out of 46 days.
For people like myself who work during the week, this means that weather permitting, I had about 16 weekend days where I could have even possibly been out there.  that is if i could get one of the 30 spots.
Summers in New England are short enough as it is.  Hopefully access will open up again and we can enjoy the month of August before the Crossover closes again on Labor Day weekend.
The birds are thriving, we are complying with the restrictions and this talk of permanent closure is INSANE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Crossover (which is where 4X4 vehicles can drive onto a small fenced-in strip of the beach) opened for the season on Saturday May 29th.<br />
This area was limited to 30-40 vehicles.  this accounts to probably 100 feet of the beach which stretches another mile out to Goose Point.<br />
At some points in past years I believe access was open to over 200 vehicles.<br />
The following week of the 7th, the Crossover was closed a few days due to the hatching of a nest.  Once the birds moved from their nest the Crossover was once again opened with limited access (30 cars).<br />
The limited access continued until June 24th when another nest hatched and the Crossover was closed.  It has been 20 days since that closure and still the Crossover is not open.<br />
So far this summer the limited access to the beach has been available for only about 23 out of 46 days.<br />
For people like myself who work during the week, this means that weather permitting, I had about 16 weekend days where I could have even possibly been out there.  that is if i could get one of the 30 spots.<br />
Summers in New England are short enough as it is.  Hopefully access will open up again and we can enjoy the month of August before the Crossover closes again on Labor Day weekend.<br />
The birds are thriving, we are complying with the restrictions and this talk of permanent closure is INSANE</p>
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		<title>By: Richer Earth</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21219</link>
		<dc:creator>Richer Earth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21219</guid>
		<description>The beach can be enjoyed without the use of an internal combustion engine -- and in my view it is best enjoyed that way. Protection of our shore birds is critical and well worth a bit of inconvenience to beach drivers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The beach can be enjoyed without the use of an internal combustion engine &#8212; and in my view it is best enjoyed that way. Protection of our shore birds is critical and well worth a bit of inconvenience to beach drivers.</p>
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		<title>By: Nina Alonso Hathaway</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21215</link>
		<dc:creator>Nina Alonso Hathaway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21215</guid>
		<description>The thoughtlessness and selfishness of people driving onto a beach is sickening.  What they do to the beach, scarring and eroding it, is bad enough even if the plovers weren&#039;t an issue, and they are a species survival issue.  Laziness is the bottom line here. Ban vehicles from the beach.  No one has the &quot;right&quot; to destroy because they can&#039;t find an &quot;easy&quot; way to carry their coolers and umbrellas and wheel their toddlers.    Please think beyond your little bubble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thoughtlessness and selfishness of people driving onto a beach is sickening.  What they do to the beach, scarring and eroding it, is bad enough even if the plovers weren&#8217;t an issue, and they are a species survival issue.  Laziness is the bottom line here. Ban vehicles from the beach.  No one has the &#8220;right&#8221; to destroy because they can&#8217;t find an &#8220;easy&#8221; way to carry their coolers and umbrellas and wheel their toddlers.    Please think beyond your little bubble.</p>
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		<title>By: Marion</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21213</link>
		<dc:creator>Marion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21213</guid>
		<description>Re-migrate the birds?  Someone didn&#039;t pay attention in school science classes. 

Get the cars, trucks, SUVs, jet skis, loud motor boats, and motorized whatever off the beach and away from the shoreline.  These creations of the 1900&#039;s-present are eyesores, safety issues, and unwanted pollution (noise, environmental, etc.) for the 99.999% of humans going to the beach to relax and be with nature.  

Drive your SUV and commune in the mall parking lot, where cars, trucks and SUVs belong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re-migrate the birds?  Someone didn&#8217;t pay attention in school science classes. </p>
<p>Get the cars, trucks, SUVs, jet skis, loud motor boats, and motorized whatever off the beach and away from the shoreline.  These creations of the 1900&#8242;s-present are eyesores, safety issues, and unwanted pollution (noise, environmental, etc.) for the 99.999% of humans going to the beach to relax and be with nature.  </p>
<p>Drive your SUV and commune in the mall parking lot, where cars, trucks and SUVs belong.</p>
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		<title>By: Frances</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21211</link>
		<dc:creator>Frances</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21211</guid>
		<description>The birds need the beach to survive. The people need to drive onto the beach to...do what, exactly? When I go to the beach, I want to enjoy the sand and the water. If I wanted to look at a bunch of SUVs, I&#039;d go to a shopping mall parking lot or a car dealership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The birds need the beach to survive. The people need to drive onto the beach to&#8230;do what, exactly? When I go to the beach, I want to enjoy the sand and the water. If I wanted to look at a bunch of SUVs, I&#8217;d go to a shopping mall parking lot or a car dealership.</p>
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		<title>By: Johno</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21209</link>
		<dc:creator>Johno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21209</guid>
		<description>This could be one of the most ridiculous things I&#039;ve ever heard. I mean if there are only a few hundred of these birds left, what on earth would make you want to displace them? Especially for something as pointless as driving an extra few yards onto a beach. In all seriousness that could be one of the trashiest activities I&#039;ve ever heard of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This could be one of the most ridiculous things I&#8217;ve ever heard. I mean if there are only a few hundred of these birds left, what on earth would make you want to displace them? Especially for something as pointless as driving an extra few yards onto a beach. In all seriousness that could be one of the trashiest activities I&#8217;ve ever heard of.</p>
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		<title>By: geffe</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21208</link>
		<dc:creator>geffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21208</guid>
		<description>Well it&#039;s nice to see that the species Homo Sapien Ignoramus is thriving on our beeches with their gas guzzling SUV&#039;s. 

Buggies? What buggies, these people drive their SUV&#039;s onto the beech&#039;s which is a pretty ugly sight. Not to mention the damage done to the beech by all these 2000+ pound SUV&#039;s driving on them. 

These people need to think of the bigger picture other than their own selfish pleasures of driving from home to the beech to plant their fat butts down for an afternoon.

Disgusting people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it&#8217;s nice to see that the species Homo Sapien Ignoramus is thriving on our beeches with their gas guzzling SUV&#8217;s. </p>
<p>Buggies? What buggies, these people drive their SUV&#8217;s onto the beech&#8217;s which is a pretty ugly sight. Not to mention the damage done to the beech by all these 2000+ pound SUV&#8217;s driving on them. </p>
<p>These people need to think of the bigger picture other than their own selfish pleasures of driving from home to the beech to plant their fat butts down for an afternoon.</p>
<p>Disgusting people.</p>
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		<title>By: frances</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21207</link>
		<dc:creator>frances</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21207</guid>
		<description>Seriously! The whole beach is 3 miles long? Who are these people that can&#039;t tote some things for a mile? Banning cars from the beach is the best thing that could ever happen, for the people! Why would I want to go to a beach that people use as a parking lot? Ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously! The whole beach is 3 miles long? Who are these people that can&#8217;t tote some things for a mile? Banning cars from the beach is the best thing that could ever happen, for the people! Why would I want to go to a beach that people use as a parking lot? Ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: CHRIS</title>
		<link>http://www.wbur.org/2010/07/13/piping-plovers/comment-page-1#comment-21202</link>
		<dc:creator>CHRIS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wbur.org/?p=19949#comment-21202</guid>
		<description>Boo-freaking-hoo! So you can&#039;t drive on the beach a couple of months, so what??? It is amazing that some humans just can&#039;t get over themselves &amp; their &quot;rights&quot;. Maybe start thinking beyond yourselves and reconnect with some other inhabitants on this earth for a change. Re-migrate, your kidding right?? These birds were here LOOONGGG time before you, honey. Guess what, I don&#039;t like where your living, so we are going to move your house to a major highway. What? You have toddlers, well I guess they will just have to learn to move faster huh??? Sheesh!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boo-freaking-hoo! So you can&#8217;t drive on the beach a couple of months, so what??? It is amazing that some humans just can&#8217;t get over themselves &amp; their &#8220;rights&#8221;. Maybe start thinking beyond yourselves and reconnect with some other inhabitants on this earth for a change. Re-migrate, your kidding right?? These birds were here LOOONGGG time before you, honey. Guess what, I don&#8217;t like where your living, so we are going to move your house to a major highway. What? You have toddlers, well I guess they will just have to learn to move faster huh??? Sheesh!!!</p>
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