Holder Names Prosecutor To Probe Interrogations

ROBERT SIEGEL, host:

From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Robert Siegel.

MELISSA BLOCK, host:

And I'm Melissa Block.

It has been a landmark day in the debate over torture. This morning, the White House announced the creation of a special team of interrogators to gather information from the most sensitive terrorism suspects. We'll hear more about that team in a moment. But first, Attorney General Eric Holder announced this afternoon that a prosecutor will investigate whether CIA interrogators broke anti-torture laws. The appointment of John Durham came as the Justice Department released hundreds of pages documenting some of the worst cases of detainee abuse from the Bush administration.

NPR's Ari Shapiro joins us now. And Ari, first tell us more about this prosecutor, John Durham, who has been named to investigate these interrogations.

ARI SHAPIRO: Well, he's a federal prosecutor from Connecticut, and he's already working on a related investigation. Since the end of the Bush administration, he has been looking into the CIA's destruction of videotapes depicting harsh interrogations. Former Attorney General Michael Mukasey assigned him that task. And now he will be looking at the interrogations themselves - or some of them anyway - particular detainees who are interrogated at particular overseas locations by CIA interrogators and contractors.

Attorney General Holder called this a preliminary review. He said this will determine whether a full investigation is warranted. If a full investigation is warranted, that could possibly lead to criminal charges down the road. Justice lawyers in the previous administration reviewed these same facts and reached a different conclusion. They thought there was no prosecution necessary, but Attorney General Holder disagreed.

BLOCK: And as you mentioned Ari, the naming of this prosecutor, John Durham, comes on the same day as the Justice Department released a lot of documents about detainee abuse during interrogations.

SHAPIRO: Right. The biggest one is this inspector general report on torture that was finished in 2004, but has been classified until now. Just today, that report was released. And it's one of the things that prompted the attorney general to conclude that an investigation of torture was necessary. Parts of the report are still redacted but there are many new descriptions of abuse incidents that we didn't know about.

For example, there's one case where a mock execution was staged in the room adjoining an interrogation room. According to this report, a gun was fired and somebody who was hooded and made to look like a dead detainee, was carried past the detainee who was being interrogated. In another case, the detainee was threatened with a gun and a power drill.

One detainee was told that interrogators would kill his children. Another one was told that his mother could be sexually abused. Those are some of the specific incidents that John Durham, this prosecutor named today, is going to look into.

BLOCK: And what have we heard today from the White House?

SHAPIRO: Well, a White House spokesman said this is the attorney general's decision, whether to appoint a prosecutor or not. He said President Obama wants to look forward, not backward. Attorney General Holder said he shares that view about looking forward, but he said, given all the information available, he said the investigation was the only responsible course of action for him to take.

CIA Director Leon Panetta sent a letter to all agency employees this morning. Panetta called the story of abuses an old story. He said people have been disciplined for abuses, and he promised to stand up for those officers who did what their country asked and who followed the legal guidance they were given.

Of course, this investigation is looking into those who did not follow the legal advice they were given and who went beyond even the harshest techniques that were authorized by the Justice Department.

BLOCK: And I gather that the Justice Department is also going to be releasing hundreds of pages - more documents related to torture. What's coming there?

SHAPIRO: Yeah. We're not done yet. So, in addition to this inspector general report that came out today, there are many other Freedom of Information Act lawsuits - from organizations ranging from the ACLU to Amnesty International and other human rights groups. Well, the Justice Department decided to respond to all of those lawsuits in one day. And so they're releasing documents ranging from those that former Vice President Dick Cheney asked for that may show what kind of information was gleamed from harsh interrogations. And we'll see what the rest of the pile contains. I'm told that's hundreds and hundreds of pages.

BLOCK: Okay. NPR's Ari Shapiro, thank you very much.

SHAPIRO: You're welcome.

ROBERT SIEGEL, host:

From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Robert Siegel.

MELISSA BLOCK, host:

And I'm Melissa Block.

It has been a landmark day in the debate over torture. This morning, the White House announced the creation of a special team of interrogators to gather information from the most sensitive terrorism suspects. We'll hear about more about that team in a moment. But first, Attorney General Eric Holder announced this afternoon that a prosecutor will investigate whether CIA interrogators broke anti-torture laws. The appointment of John Durham came as the Justice Department released hundreds of pages documenting some of the worst cases of detainee abuse from the Bush administration.

NPR's Ari Shapiro joins us now. And Ari, first, tell us more about John Durham, the prosecutor who is going to be investigating these interrogations.

ARI SHAPIRO: Well, he's a federal prosecutor from Connecticut who has worked for the Justice Department for decades. And he already is investigating something closely related to this question of whether torture was committed. For the last year or so, he's been investigating whether the CIA broke a law by destroying videotapes depicting harsh interrogations.

So Attorney General Eric Holder has now asked him to expand his investigation. Holder called this a preliminary review to find out whether a full investigation is warranted. If so, charges could be brought against interrogators, or perhaps not.

Justice lawyers in the previous administration reviewed the same facts and concluded that a prosecution was not warranted, but Attorney General Holder disagreed.

BLOCK: And was it the release of those documents from the Justice Department that we mentioned earlier, that led to the appointment of John Durham as prosecutor today?

SHAPIRO: That was one of the things that led him to conclude that a prosecutor was appropriate. The other thing was an investigation by a team of Justice Department ethics lawyers who have not released their report publicly yet. But Attorney General Holder saw the ethics lawyers' investigation, saw their conclusions. And they recommended that he appoint somebody to look into this and revisit the previous administration's conclusion that prosecutions were not appropriate. So it was the combination of those two things: The ethics lawyers' conclusion and the inspector general report from the CIA.

BLOCK: And of the hundreds of pages of documents released today, what are some of the key details that have emerged in that inspector general report from the CIA?

SHAPIRO: Well, there are all sorts of accounts about harsh techniques that were used in interrogations that went even beyond the Justice Department's most lenient legal guidance. For example, there is one account of a mock execution, where a gun was fired in a room adjacent to the interrogation room. And then somebody who was made to look like a dead detainee was carried past the man being interrogated.

In another instance, a detainee was threatened with a gun and with a power drill. One detainee was told: We're going to kill your children. Another detainee was threatened that his mother could be sexually abused. Those are some of the specific incidents that Eric Holder has asked John Durham to look into.

BLOCK: And reaction today from within the Obama administration?

SHAPIRO: Well, the spokesman for the White House said the president believes this is the attorney general's decision to make. President Obama said he wants to look forward, but not backward. Holder said he shares that view, but given all the information available to him, he said he has no choice but to call for this investigation. He said it's the only responsible course of action for him to take.

CIA Director Leon Panetta sent a letter to all agency employees, where he called the news of abuses an old story. He said people have been disciplined for these abuses. And he promised to stand up for those officers who did what their country asked and who followed the legal advice they were given. Of course, this investigation is looking into the people who did not follow the legal advice they were given and did some more extreme things.

BLOCK: Now, besides the report by the CIA inspector general released today, I understand the administration also released some documents that former Vice President Dick Cheney had been asking for.

SHAPIRO: That's right. These are memos about the information that was gleaned from harsh interrogations. There are two documents. One is specifically about the detainee named Khalid Sheikh Mohammed - some of the harshest techniques were used against him. The other is broader and it's about information that was gleaned from several different al-Qaida detainees.

And so, through these hundreds of pages of documents, we have two very different competing views on harsh interrogations, whether they worked or whether they didn't. One question that is not answered in any of these documents is whether traditional interrogation techniques could have worked when the harsh interrogations were used instead.

BLOCK: NPR justice correspondent Ari Shapiro, thank you very much.

SHAPIRO: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright National Public Radio.