Matthew Continetti On The 'Persecution' Of Palin

REBECCA ROBERTS, host:

This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Rebecca Roberts in Washington. Neal Conan is in Fort Myers, Florida. We'll catch up with him later this hour.

But first, it's been all Palin, all the time since the former Alaska governor rolled out her new memoir on �Oprah.� Conservative Republicans get behind a GOP newcomer in Florida, and President Obama ends his boycott of socks. Oh, and did I mention Sarah Palin's been doing a few interviews this week? It's Wednesday, time for a Wasilla-to-Washington edition of the Political Junkie.

Former President RONALD REAGAN: There you go again.

Former Vice President WALTER MONDALE: When I hear your new ideas, I'm reminded of that ad: Where's the beef?

Former Senator BARRY GOLDWATER (Republican, Arizona): Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.

Former Senator LLOYD BENTSEN (Democrat, Texas): Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.

President RICHARD NIXON: You don't have Nixon to kick around anymore.

Vice Presidential Candidate SARAH PALIN: Lipstick.

President GEORGE W. BUSH: But I'm the decider.

(Soundbite of scream)

ROBERTS: Every Wednesday, NPR's political editor Ken Rudin joins us for a whip-around of the week's political news. On the slate today, the loser in New York's 23rd Congressional District reconsiders, Republican primaries in Texas and Florida heat up, and a Washington pol is headed to prison.

We'll also add to the chatter over Sarah Palin's new book. Matthew Continetti, author of �The Persecution of Sarah Palin,� will join us. But first, political junkie Ken Rudin joins us here in Studio 3A. Hey there, Ken.

KEN RUDIN: Hi, Rebecca.

ROBERTS: As always, let's start with the trivia.

RUDIN: OK. Trivia question does not have to do with Sarah Palin - which is the only thing I will not talk about Sarah Palin today. Today is actually history in the making. Robert Byrd of West Virginia, the senator, breaks a record for the longest-serving member of Congress. He's been in for 20,774 days.

(Soundbite of laughter)

RUDIN: He's already served longer than any other senator in history. OK, but who holds the record for being his state's longest-serving junior senator - that is, serving alongside a senator with more seniority?

ROBERTS: So if you think you know who is the longest-serving junior senator who has served the longest without becoming the senior senator from his or her state, give us a call, 800-989-8255. You can also send us email, talk@npr.org.

So let's go back to this question of New York's 23rd Congressional District. The winner was sworn in.

RUDIN: The winner, the Democrat Bill Owens, he had a 5,000-vote lead on November 3. He was sworn in that Friday because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi desperately needed more votes for health care, and Bill Owens voted for the health-care bill on Saturday night.

But then with some recount, the number got to 3,026 votes, and then with more tabulations, it's at 2,900, and now the fact is that there are like, 10,000 absentee ballots that went out prior to November 3rd, and so a lot of them may be military, and a lot of people are saying well, wait a second. Maybe the conservative party candidate, Doug Hoffman, has a chance to pickup a good - a lion's share of that.

So Hoffman, realizing that there's a possibility he had a chance of winning, kind of unconceded on the Glenn Beck radio show a couple days ago.

ROBERTS: We actually have that tape. Let's listen to Doug Hoffman on Glenn Beck.

(Soundbite of radio program)

Mr. GLENN BECK (Radio Host): Are you officially unconceding at this moment?

Mr. DOUG HOFFMAN: Yes. If I knew this information at the Election Night, I would not have conceded.

Mr. BECK: So are you unconceding?

Mr. HOFFMAN: Well, if that's possible, yes.

ROBERTS: So leaving aside the question of whether or not unconceding is a word, what are the prospects of the - counting the absentee ballots actually narrowing that gap enough, and what does this mean for a member who's already been sworn in?

RUDIN: Well, I don't think it's ever happened before. I mean, there have been members taken out of Congress because of electoral fraud and then, of course, they've been, you know, disqualified for that reason. But I've never seen a recount unseat a member of Congress. Just one thing about unconceding or conceding and withdrawing a concession, Al Gore did concede on Election Night of 2000. Then he took it back because Florida was still counting, and then he conceded again back in December. So it's not unprecedented.

And also, there's no legality to concession. It doesn't - all it says was you did a better job than I did, and congratulations on your victory. But of course, if the vote shows that I actually won, then my concession didn't mean anything.

Having said that, so you have about perhaps 10,000 absentee ballots that were sent out. A lot of them could be military. Fort Drum is up in the 23rd District in New York, and a lot of those votes could go to Dede Scozzafava. Now, it just gives me an excuse to say her name over again because, of course, she was the Republican nominee who dropped out of the race just prior to the election and wound up endorsing the Democratic candidate, Bill Owens, rather than the conservative, Doug Hoffman.

Now, there are still - right now, as of now, there are 2,959 votes separating Hoffman from Owens. Owens has the lead. There are still 5,500 absentee ballots still to be counted, but of the absentee ballots that have been counted so far, Doug Hoffman, the conservative, has picked up 44 percent, Owens 32 and Scozzafava 24 percent.

For Hoffman to win, he's going to have to get much more than less than half, fewer than half of the votes coming in. So it's theoretically possible. It's numerically possible. I don't think it's going to happen, though.

ROBERTS: So if he continues to win votes among those absentees at the rate at which he has won them so far, he continues to be the loser.

RUDIN: He will narrow the gap, but he will not go ahead and win, and of course, if he does go over the top, you expect that Bill Owens and the Democrats might bring a court challenge like we saw in Minnesota that went on for a long, long time. But legally, if Hoffman has the most votes, they will unseat Owens and give it to Hoffman. Again, as you say, I don't think that's going to happen.

ROBERTS: Now, this was a race that a lot of people were watching, in part because of this dynamic of the Conservative Party candidate basically edged the Republican Party candidate out of the way. This dynamic of the establishment Republican candidate not being conservative enough for some party base members.

It's also playing itself out in the Florida governor's race with Charlie Crist. What's the latest there?

RUDIN: Right. Charlie Crist is the establishment favorite. Now, he is a nominal conservative. He's pro-life, he's pro-gun but of course, he had the heresy of embracing Barack Obama and embracing Barack Obama's stimulus package, you know, early in the year when both the stimulus package and Barack Obama were much more popular than they are now.

So obviously, now, Charlie Crist is being called this RINO, this Republican in name only, and Marco Rubio, who is Cuban-American, who is the former speaker of the House - of the Florida House - who's much younger than Crist and much more dynamic, and the conservatives love him.

A lot of conservatives are getting involved in this race, similar to what happened in New York 23. The Club for Growth, which made a big deal in the upstate New York congressional district, has endorsed Rubio.

One person who has been quiet so far is Jeb Bush, who is perhaps the most popular - or influential Republican in Florida. Marco Rubio is an ally, a protege of Jeb Bush, and if Jeb Bush makes an endorsement, that could be very interesting. But some conservatives like Mike Huckabee, others like that who - Huckabee who we had on the show a couple of weeks ago - is involved in the race and has endorsed Rubio.

ROBERTS: Now similar dynamic, at least in terms of a Republican primary battle in Texas. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison is challenging incumbent Republican Governor Rick Perry, and she picked up a big endorsement from a prominent conservative.

Former Vice President DICK CHENEY: (Unintelligible) know the difference between a real talker and the real deal, and when it comes to being conservative, Kay Bailey Hutchison is the real deal. She's been her whole career, and you can count on it when she's governor, and that's why I'm proud to announce my support for Kay Bailey Hutchison, the next governor of the state of Texas.

(Soundbite of applause)

ROBERTS: That, of course, is former Vice President Dick Cheney. How is current Governor Rick Perry taking that news?

RUDIN: Well, I thought that was very interesting because remember, Rick Perry was George W. Bush's lieutenant governor. So they were a team when they were re-elected in 1998, and it's interesting to see Dick Cheney come in and endorse Kay Bailey Hutchison. Obviously, when he's talking about Hutchison being the real conservative and the real deal and calling Rick Perry a real talker, there's obviously a split there among the Republicans. But Rick Perry, of course, says look, the Washington establishment sticks together. Dick Cheney is part of the Washington establishment. And plus, the fact that I have the endorsement of Sarah Palin - who has endorsed Rick Perry much earlier in the year, and so obviously, it's obviously an issue of perhaps Washington-based conservatives, like Cheney, like Hutchison, and the real conservatives, the real deal, as Rick Perry would say - he, himself and Sarah Palin.

ROBERTS: Now, Senator Hutchison has chosen to hang on to her Senate seat. Does that say to you that she's hedging her bets?

RUDIN: Well, yes. That's very interesting because earlier in the year, she said she was going to resign her Senate seat and focus on the gubernatorial race full time; she would resign in perhaps October, November.

The fact that she announced that she is not going to quit makes many people think that the odds of her beating Rick Perry in next March's primary are not as good as they once had been. I still think that Perry is going to win that primary, and of course, she sticks on - she keeps her Senate seat by doing this, and her seat is not up until 2012.

ROBERTS: Speaking of endorsements, Jenny Sanford, the wife of somewhat disgraced South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford, has made an endorsement of her own.

RUDIN: She has and you know, with all the embarrassment that's going on with South Carolina Republicans - there was Mark Sanford, of course, who disappeared not too far from the Appalachian Trail. There was also Joe Wilson, who yelled out - you lie - at President Obama during the speech before a joint session of Congress. And then there were these two - South Carolina Republican party chairman, who compared the fiscal prudence of Senator Jim DeMint to the Jews being good with money. I mean, it was just - South Carolina Republicans have had a lovely year.

But Jenny Sanford remains extremely popular. She is not one of those stand-by-your-man first ladies when the husband just says - confesses to an affair. She took the four kids, moved out of the gubernatorial mansion, and she remains extremely popular.

She made a key endorsement on next year's race for governor. Mark Sanford cannot succeed himself; he's term-limited. A woman by the name Nikki Hailey, who is a state representative - South Carolina has very few women in elective office, and perhaps Jenny Sanford's endorsement could make a difference. But of course, money is the big deal in South Carolina and most female candidates, as we've seen all over the country, do not attract the kind of money that male candidates get.

ROBERTS: And what party is Nikki Hailey from?

RUDIN: They're all Republicans.

ROBERTS: Now let's get some quick answers to our trivia question. The question is, who is the longest-serving junior senator? This is Anton(ph) in Mount Shasta, California. What's your guess, Anton?

ANTON (Caller): I'm going to go with John Kerry.

RUDIN: Well, John Kerry served under Ted Kennedy, the late Ted Kennedy, for 23 years, which is a lot being a junior senator, but it's not even on the top five list. Twenty-three years as a junior senator to Ted Kennedy, but it's not John Kerry.

ROBERTS: Let's hear from Bill(ph) in Bay Village, Ohio.

BILL (Caller): Hi. Was it Fritz Hollings from South Carolina, under Strom Thurmond?

RUDIN: That is the correct answer. Wow, we usually get it, you know -usually, the game here is to have a lot of incorrect answers.

ROBERTS: We have to take a break in a few seconds.

(Soundbite of laughter)

RUDIN: But it is correct. Fritz Hollings, 36 years under Strom Thurmond.

ROBERTS: I'm going to put you on hold, Bill, and we will get your particulars so you can win the fabulous prize.

Coming up, from Washington to Wasilla, it's Palinpalooza. Matt Continetti of The Weekly Standard joins us. His new book is called �The Persecution of Sarah Palin.�

Republicans, what is the future of Sarah Palin in the Republican Party? Give us a call, 989-TALK, or send email to talk@npr.org. I'm Rebecca Roberts. It's TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

(Soundbite of music)

ROBERTS: This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Rebecca Roberts in Washington. And now, the Political Junkie reading corner. We know you are all dying to talk about that buzzy little best seller, �Going Rogue.� Sarah Palin's book hit the streets yesterday. We don't have the former governor of Alaska with us, but we do have Matthew Continetti of The Weekly Standard. He interviewed the former vice presidential candidate for his new book, �The Persecution of Sarah Palin: How the Elite Media Tried to Bring Down a Rising Star.� Welcome to the program.

Mr. MATTHEW CONTINETTI (Author, �The Persecution of Sarah Palin: How the Elite Media Tried to Bring Down a Rising Star�): Thanks for having me.

ROBERTS: And we'd like to hear from Republicans in our audience. What future does Sarah Palin have in your party? The number to call, 800-989-8255. Or send us email, talk@npr.org. You can also join the conversation at our Web site. Go to npr.org, and click on TALK OF THE NATION.

And NPR political editor Ken Rudin is still with us, Ken, for the rest of the segment. But Matthew Continetti, let's start with you. Before we begin with your book, you've read Sarah Palin's book. How did the picture that you got from �Going Rogue� compare to the candidate you knew and interviewed for your book?

Mr. CONTINETTI: Actually, quite favorably. The information in my book is very similar to what I reported and what we find in �Going Rogue.� And so there's a lot of - of course, there's intense infighting in the McCain campaign right now, or the former McCain campaign, about what is true and what is not in �Going Rogue.� But what I found, not only talking to Governor Palin, as I have, but also talking to the people around her and during the campaign, her account seems to be more or less accurate.

ROBERTS: And is there - have you talked to former McCain staffers who either find it inaccurate or resent that she aired party dirty laundry?

Mr. CONTINETTI: Yeah, I mean, those people come across, but they tend to be kind of outnumbered, though, by the people who worked with her the closest during the campaign - who briefed her, who did communications for her. And they say, you know what? She was ill-served by McCain media strategy that was so concerned with Governor Palin's weaknesses, it didn't appreciate her strengths.

ROBERTS: You see her as a viable candidate for 2012. What is your argument there?

Mr. CONTINETTI: Well, I think she doesn't know whether she's going to run for president or not, but I think that if she did, she enjoys a gut connection with the Republican grass roots that few politicians have. And she remains extremely popular among the Republican, you know, rank and file. And that would make her, I think, should she decide to run, a formidable candidate.

She has a much larger problem, though, and I wrote about this recently in the Wall Street Journal - which is that, of course, the Democrats are decidedly against her, and independents are divided, and they're divided to the point where there are more independents who dislike her than like her. And if she does really, seriously, entertain presidential ambitions, she has to find a way to switch those numbers among independent voters.

ROBERTS: What about among Republicans?

Mr. CONTINETTI: Well, among Republicans, most Republicans like her, and most Republicans would like to see her run. Most Republicans tell pollsters that they want her to remain a force in national politics. And of course, Palin exhibits - and I write about this toward the end of �The Persecution of Sarah Palin� - she exhibits such pull on the media and her supporters, that she doesn't really need to hold office to affect the debate. Right?

I mean, we were speaking earlier about the race in the New York 23rd Congressional District. Well, she was one of the most prominent and first Republican figures to endorse that conservative challenger, Doug Hoffman, and that led to just a flood of money and then a flood of other kind of followers like Governor Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota, who then endorsed Hoffman. And that set into motion, I believe - one Facebook post from Sarah Palin, set into motion a process that ended up with the liberal Republican candidate, Dede Scozzafava, withdrawing from the race.

ROBERTS: So if she has that sort of influence, what do you see as the best platform for it?

Mr. CONTINETTI: Right, well, and I wrote about this in that Journal article I mentioned. Palin has to prove to the independent voters who are divided on her and who don't really trust her at this point - she has to prove two things. One, she has to prove that she is qualified to hold high office. That's something that she hasn't been able to do yet. And two, she has to prove, I think, that she has policy heft.

I've been amazed, as I discuss in my new book - and of course, discuss her new book - everyone wants to talk about one interview in particular, and that's the Katie Couric interview. And I think - and I write about this in �The Persecution of Sarah Palin� - I think that one interview did the most damage to any national political figure than any other interview since, really, Ted Kennedy's interview with Roger Mudd of CBS in 1979, when Kennedy couldn't answer the question of why he wanted to be president. It really derailed his presidential ambitions, I think, in retrospect, and also shaped opinions - the public's opinions of Kennedy.

Now, of course, that one interview didn't stop Ted Kennedy from being the liberal lion that we all memorialized last summer, but - and I don't think the Couric interview will stop Sarah Palin from being this huge force in national politics and our public discourse - but she's going to have to rematch with Katie Couric, I think, if she wants to show those independents that she has what it takes.

ROBERTS: Well, let me turn this question out to our callers. Given that Sarah Palin has a big megaphone, a lot of influence, and the ability to raise a lot of money and generate some interest among Republicans, what do you see as her best platform for that? Should she run for office? Should she host a talk show? What do you think is the best role for Sarah Palin within the Republican Party? Our number is 800-989-8255. Our email is talk@npr.org.

Let's hear from Bob in St. Louis, Missouri. Bob, welcome to TALK OF THE NATION.

BOB (Caller): I think she'd be great at fundraising. That's evidenced by the lines outside the bookstores today. I don't think she'll ever be able to be on a ticket. But you know, if you compare it to the two most recent failed Democratic vice presidential candidates, Joe Lieberman's not doing much for the Democratic Party and John Edwards, you don't hear much about him - what he's doing for the Democratic Party. So I think she'll play a bigger role than either one of those in their respective parties.

ROBERTS: Bob, why do you say she shouldn't be on the ticket?

BOB: Well, I think obviously, she's real polarizing, and you've got to kind of take the middle. You know, you've got to take the independents as well as whoever's in your party.

ROBERTS: Are you a Republican, by the way?

BOB: I vote both ways. I probably vote more Democratic than I do Republican by a little.

ROBERTS: Bob, thanks for your call.

BOB: I voted for John McCain, for example.

ROBERTS: OK. What's your response to the polarizing point, that it loses as many voters as it gains?

Mr. CONTINETTI: Well, it's absolutely true. I mean, she is a polarizing figure. That's why I wrote this book, �The Persecution of Sarah Palin,� in order to try to explain why she became so polarizing.

I don't think anyone expected - I had known about Governor Palin for about a year prior to her being placed on the ticket, and what I knew about her was -reputation as a political - dare I say it? - maverick who unseated�

ROBERTS: I'm not sure anyone can ever use that word ever again.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. CONTINETTI: I know, I would be fined now, the FCC. But you know, she unseated an incumbent Republican. She took on her own party, state party chair, Randy Reudrich, who I talked to for my book, over ethics charges.

The Republican establishment in Alaska cannot, to this day, stand Sarah Palin. So you hear about that, and then you hear about once she became governor in '06, what did she do? Well, her main program was a big ethics bill, a change in the way that the oil companies are taxed, and then she went up against the oil companies again to reform the way that this natural gas pipeline is being managed and being bidded on.

So this is actually a fairly centrist, you know, bipartisan agenda. Much of her support in the state legislature, for all three of those things I mentioned, came from Democrats. And yet when we got to the campaign, she became transmogrified into this kind of Bible-thumping, right-wing luddite. And so what I try to do in the book is trace that process.

ROBERTS: Well, of course, one of the reasons the McCain campaign selected her as a vice presidential candidate was to appeal to the conservative base. So do you think their trumping of her conservative credentials added to that?

Mr. CONTINETTI: Yeah, and I think you're right about that. I think the campaign - Palin faced, and the people I spoke to in Alaska for my book also raised this point - Palin faced a little bit of a situational problem.

Here she was, she was being elevated to really becoming the most famous Republican woman in the world, and yet she was the pit bull on the McCain campaign. So I think you're right. I think she lost a lot of that bipartisan flavor when she adopted the traditional vice presidential role of going after the top of the opposite ticket. And so that, I think, is one reason when she returned to Alaska all of that bipartisan comity, all of that support from the Democrats had completely evaporated.

ROBERTS: Ken?

RUDIN: Matt, I read your book, and there are a lot of things in it I agree with. I think that some of the things that came out that the media, and everybody, decided to discuss when she was named, like whether her son was really her son. That was, I think, beyond the pale and despicable. Having said that, I still remember the Katie Couric interview, and I also remember the Oprah interview all of two days ago when she still couldn't really - in my mind, couldn't explain why she resigned as governor. And you talk about policy heft: I didn't get the sense that she's been boning up on any issues. She sounded very much the same.

And it's one thing for the Republican Party to have this champion, this fighter for, you know, the core values and grassroots, but you also want to win in November. And I'm not saying that you have to sacrifice conservative principles, but I didn't see anything that would win over - you know, we talked about the Bob McDonnell victory in Virginia and the Christie victory in New Jersey, all with independents - I don't see her doing that.

Mr. CONTINETTI: And I agree that it is a huge challenge for her because she has become this figure. I would disagree a little bit, Ken, on the policy stuff simply because - well, for one thing, it's Oprah. I saw that interview. I thought Palin did a pretty good job, but this was a very soft-focused, human-interest interview.

I actually spoke to Governor Palin last night and - for about, you know, 15, 20 minutes. And I just said, Governor, I just want to take some current events and get your comment on them. And obviously, on these events her perspective was conservative. She has moved, I think, to embracing the conservative movement because they support her so strongly. And also because when this attack happened, as I outline in the book, really the conservatives were the only ones standing behind her, so she kind of moved toward them, too.

She does have answers to the problems facing America. The problem is twofold. One, the answers tend to be more or less just the Reaganite answers, you know, cut taxes and such, which I'm not sure there's much public appetite for as there was 30 years ago. And the other answer is this broader issue of: Does the public think that Sarah Palin is the appropriate messenger for whatever the -you know, whatever the campaign platform going forward might be?

I will say, though, I had been hardened. When you go to her Facebook page and she has all these policy - you know, she tends to have these little op-eds almost every day. And she has, it seems to me, adopted a move toward a payroll tax cut, which is an idea that I've been supporting and writing about in The Weekly Standard, and which is kind of a novel policy idea that doesn't get as much discussion as I think it should here in Washington.

ROBERTS: Let's take a call from James(ph) in Raleigh, North Carolina. James, welcome to TALK OF THE NATION.

JAMES (Caller): Hello, guys. How are you all?

ROBERTS: Good.

JAMES: I think - first of all, I think Sarah Palin is not a viable presidential candidate for the Republican Party - and I am a Republican - because of the damage that has been done to her image over the John McCain campaign. I do think she could be a very strong senator along the lines of maybe a conservative Ted Kennedy just because she does have that tie to the conservative base. But I think what will happen is that a lot of Republicans and conservatives and even maybe moderate independents are going to start to support her just to spite the anti-Palin wind that is blowing throughout the country.

ROBERTS: Matt Continetti?

Mr. CONTINETTI: I think that's an excellent point. I was just at lunch with a friend, and we were talking about Palin. And he said, you know, Palin's problem is there's this kind of negative feedback loop going on, which is that liberals can't stand her and so conservatives rally to her side, and that rallying actually ratchets up the liberal hatred of her. And it just - becomes more and more polarizing going forward. I will say this. She said that a presidential campaign at this point isn't on her radar now. Of course, the thing about radar is things go on and off it over time. But there are also two other elections that she might be thinking about, politically. One is 2010. There is a House seat in Alaska. It's been held for a very long time by Don Young. And Sarah Palin, of course, has had no trouble challenging the Republican establishment in Alaska. She may feel tempted to go after Young. And in 2012, of course, the - there will be a Senate - another Senate seat coming up there, too.

RUDIN: Matthew, why would Alaska voters reward Sarah Palin with the House seat or the Lisa Murkowski Senate seat, which would be interesting because she beat his father - or her father when she quit as governor in the middle of her term?

ROBERTS: We have an email, actually, that echoes that, saying: Would your guests comment on Sarah Palin leaving her position as governor? How could an independent like me vote for her when she might quit again? Let me also mention you're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

ROBERTS: Matt Continetti?

Mr. CONTINETTI: Yeah. We've been spending a lot of time talking about Palin's liabilities going forward, and there are many of them. And one of them is the resignation, which she still hasn't quite fully explained, I think, to the voters' satisfaction. This would be a huge political weight around her neck. Palin - the portrait of Palin that comes out in my book, �The Persecution of Sarah Palin,� as I researched her and reported on her, is of an extremely instinctual and impulsive political figure, someone who does, at times, what may seem at the moment like bizarre moves, like resigning in protest from the Alaska Oil and Natural Gas Commission, or in October of 2005 entering a Republican primary against Frank Murkowski, or resigning her office in - on July 3, 2009, after - you know, after losing the presidential election.

Now, the first two moves worked out for her. The question is, will the third? And I think that it's worked out to the extent that - as I write in the closing of the book - that being free of the governorship has allowed her to become this celebrity phenomenon, this, you know, force in the debate, this kind of a signpost that no one can look away from. But whether that will come up, you know - be a strength should she decide to run for another office is a wide open question.

ROBERTS: Well, then, the question is, where is it a strength, right? I mean, if her populism, and her language that cuts through a lot of the rhetoric, and her ability to really feel connected to people is her strength, then why not be the next Rush Limbaugh instead of the next Ted Kennedy?

Mr. CONTINETTI: Well, she actually ruled out - apparently, just recently -running a talk show. But I think what - the role that we're seeing of Sarah Palin right now is of, more or less, a national spokeswoman for the conservative grassroots. And she is strongly reaching out to the tea party folks, these protesters who are going after the Obama agenda. She, I think, in her view, as you speak to her, is speaking out for the Americans who feel uncomfortable with the direction of the country - with larger deficits, with more government, with higher taxes. And it's a question of, you know, does she do that from within an office or without? I will say this: I mean, for better or worse, she really changed the health-care debate there in August of this year with one Facebook post.

ROBERTS: Matt Continetti is associate editor of The Weekly Standard. His book is called, "The Persecution of Sarah Palin: How the Elite Media Tried to Bring Down a Rising Star." You can read the introduction, "From Hero to Harpy in Eight Short Weeks," at our Web site, npr.org.

Matt Continetti, thanks so much for coming in.

Mr. CONTINETTI: Thank you for having me.

ROBERTS: And political editor Ken Rudin, thank you, as always, for joining us.

RUDIN: Thank you, Rebecca.

ROBERTS: Coming up, Neal Conan is in Florida. He's been probing the mysteries lurking just beneath the surface there on the Gulf Coast. He joins us along with mystery writer Randy Wayne White. That's coming up next. I'm Rebecca Roberts. It's TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright National Public Radio.