Celebrating The 'Other' Oscars

NEAL CONAN, host:

This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan, in Washington.

And "The Hurt Locker" will be one of the heavyweights on Oscar night.

(Soundbite of movie, "The Hurt Locker")

Unidentified Man #1 (Actor): (As character) Twenty-five.

Unidentified Man #2 (Actor): (As character) Twenty-five meters, roger that.

Unidentified Man #3 (Actor): (As character) Sanborn, butcher shop, 2 o'clock, dude has a phone.

Unidentified Man #4 (Actor): (As character) Why is Eldridge running? Come on, guys, talk to me.

Unidentified Man #5 (Actor): (As character) Get off the phone.

Unidentified Man #6 (Actor): (As character) I can't get a shot.

(Soundbite of gunfire)

CONAN: Nine Academy Award nominations include some of the biggies: best picture, best actor, best director. And just about anybody who's ever forked over 10 bucks at the box office feels qualified to voice an opinion on those.

But what about sound editing and sound mixing? What's good, and what isn't? How can you tell? Today, we're going to shine the TALK OF THE NATION spotlight on some of the unsung Oscar categories.

We want to hear from you. Do you root for best set design, makeup, costumes, and why? 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. You can also join the conversation on our Web site. That's at npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION.

Later in the program, the role of bystanders in sexual assaults on campus, but first, Murray Horwitz, our favorite film buff, joins us here in Studio 3A. Hey, Murray, nice as always to have here.

MURRAY HORWITZ: As always, Neal, thanks for having me.

CONAN: And a lot of people think, you know, those other awards just come along in the draft of some big picture.

HORWITZ: Not always, and in fact, very often, the academy members use a category like this to honor a film that they can't honor otherwise because it's just up against too many heavy hitters for the big categories.

CONAN: So a film that gets overlooked for best picture, "Star Trek," could win for best sound editing?

HORWITZ: Exactly, right, that sort of thing, or best makeup, you know, and because the nominations come from the craft members themselves so in other words, in sound editing and sound mixing, the people in the sound branch of the academy make the nominations everybody in the academy can vote, though.

CONAN: Oh, I see, vote for the final.

HORWITZ: For the final one. And it's important to remember because of the number of nominees being individuals, the actors are by far the largest quotient of the voting public - or private, whatever they are.

CONAN: So if somebody made me up to look like, you know, a really gross alien, I might not vote for them next time around.

HORWITZ: There is such an easy joke there, but I won't make it.

(Soundbite of laughter)

HORWITZ: That's right, and I'm glad that you are shining the TALK OF THE NATION spotlight on this because, you know, very often, people make light of these categories. I remember - actually somebody reminded me that a few years ago, Mike Myers was presenting the awards in sound editing and sound mixing, and he said something like, well, now the awards everybody's been waiting for. And of course, that's not why most people tune in, but it was very disrespectful to these artists.

I mean, these are people who really are creative people and work in the collaborative process to make the film great, and you shouldn't make light of them.

CONAN: Have these categories always been around?

HORWITZ: They have in some way or another. Now, obviously, when the Oscars started, there was no sound, so there were no sound Oscars.

(Soundbite of laughter)

CONAN: Well, weren't the first Oscars 1931?

HORWITZ: No, 1928.

CONAN: '28, okay.

HORWITZ: The first best picture was "Wings," which was a silent. and don't forget, for a number of years, because theaters weren't fitted-out with sound rigs, they would shoot pictures in both silent and sound versions.

CONAN: 2-D and 3-D.

HORWITZ: Right, right, exactly. And for many years in these design categories like costumes, art direction, there were black-and-white and color categories. I should I misspoke. They haven't been around forever. Makeup started I think in the late in 1981 or '82 largely as a protest. "The Elephant Man" had been done, and there was no award for makeup, and so the academy finally decided that they should have a makeup award.

There had been special prizes for makeup before. But art direction started out, interestingly enough, as interior decoration in the old days.

CONAN: Interesting.

HORWITZ: Costumes have been around since the late '40s, and art direction, forever. Sound mixing and sound editing used to be one Oscar for Best Sound, and then it got split up later on.

CONAN: Into those two categories. And let me ask: With digital advances, how do you tell the difference a lot of the time between great makeup or great CGI?

HORWITZ: It's a great question, and the rules are very, very specific in makeup, for example. I mean, this is really for people who work with paint and powder and prosthetics and masks and wigs. It does not cover digitally-generated imagery in any way, and in fact, the rules say, literally, I'm reading from them now: Makeup is any change in the appearance of a performer's face, hair or body created by the application of cosmetics, three-dimensional materials, prosthetic appliances or wigs and hairpieces applied directly to the performer's face or body.

CONAN: Not pixels, in other words.

HORWITZ: Right, exactly, so...

CONAN: Well, let's bring a guest into the conversation, an Oscar nominee himself, Wylie Stateman, nominated for an Oscar in sound editing for "Inglourious Basterds." He joins us now from the line at Sony Studios in Culver City, where he's currently working on Ridley Scott's "Robin Hood." Nice to have you with us today. Congratulations on the nomination.

Mr. WYLIE STATEMAN (2009 Oscar Nominee, Best Sound Editing, "Inglourious Basterds"): Well thank you, Neal. Thank you, Murray. Thanks for having me join you in this conversation.

CONAN: Well, I'd like to ask you: How do we tell what makes good sound editing? And I want you to listen here to a scene from you obviously did from "Inglourious Basterds." In this clip, Brad Pitt and his squad of Jewish-American soldiers, the Basterds, fight their way into a prison to liberate a fellow Nazi killer.

(Soundbite of movie, "Inglourious Basterds")

(Soundbite of music)

Mr. BRAD PITT (Actor): (As Lieutenant Aldo Raine) Lieutenant Aldo Raine. These are the Basterds. Ever heard of us? I just want to say we're a big fan of your work. When it comes to killing Nazis...

(Soundbite of gunfire)

Mr. PITT: (As Lt. Raine) I think you show great talent, and I pride myself on having an eye for that kind of talent.

(Soundbite of music)

Mr. PITT: (As Raine) Your status as a Nazi killer is still amateur. We happened to come here to see if you want to go pro.

CONAN: So one of the recruiting scenes for the "Inglourious Basterds." Can you tell us a little bit about what was involved in that scene?

Mr. STATEMAN: Yeah, well, Brad Pitt's mission is really to sort of gather an ensemble of basterds whose job it is to seek revenge and to basically wreak havoc against the Germans.

And so he arrives at this prison to spring Hugo Stiglitz, and it's really, it's a scene that's really inserted for the story and for character development. And it doesn't necessarily play in continuity with the rest of the film, but it allows, you know, for Quentin to sort of gather his team for the final mission, which is the third act of the film.

CONAN: You call him Quentin. I call him Mr. Tarantino.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. STATEMAN: Oh really? Well, we call him QT, actually. That's and he's, you know, he's a very endearing character to all of his creative team, and he's a wonderful craftsperson in his own right.

CONAN: Well, you've made what makes good sound editing? How can we tell?

Mr. STATEMAN: Well, I think that the way to really describe it and maybe differentiate it from the best sound category, which is typically given to the recording engineers, is to say that the supervising sound editor is kind of like an architect would be to a construction project.

He's a person tasked with the responsibility of design and of layout and of describing the various sound effects that are necessary in order to produce believability or to produce rhythm and momentum in the scene.

And so I consider the supervising sound editor role as really an architectural role. And the mixing role, which is the other category given at Oscar time, is an engineering role, where they're physically setting the levels of sounds and placing the sounds in the theater and combining the dialogue with the music and the sound effects and setting those relationships.

So the supervising sound editor is kind of like an architect, developing original material, pulling from library sources and also working very closely with the film editor in our case, it was Sally Menke - and Quentin and, you know, developing, you know, an overall story arc and story concepts and individual sound effects.

CONAN: Well, I'm going to do something unfair. I want to listen to you to listen to a little bit of a clip from one of your competitors for the award this year, and this is, of course, "Avatar." This is a scene where the blue lady takes Jake up to meet the dragon he's going to fly on later in the film, and it gets all very exciting, very little dialogue but a lot of special effects.

(Soundbite of movie, "Avatar")

(Soundbite of alien creatures)

Unidentified Woman #1 (Actor): (As character) Do not look in her eye.

CONAN: And timing all that stuff, figuring out what sound you're going to use where when you're creating these sounds, that's all involved here?

Mr. STATEMAN: Yeah, and I think, Neal, it's a lot more than just timing. At a certain point, when you're working on a project like "Avatar," and you've got Pandora, which is this fantasy planet with floating island, you know, land mass, you're really tasked to sort of ground all that into something that would be believable on one hand, recognizable on one hand but also that sort of helps the audience take the leap into the fantasy world.

And so a scene like you just played has creature voices that are derived from all different source materials of real animals and possibly even actor vocals and various things. And I think the challenge, you know, in that film was, you know, they created a language, they created a planet, and all of that material had to be sourced from...

CONAN: From something.

Mr. STATEMAN: From fantasy, yeah.

CONAN: And let's get another caller into the conversation. Michael(ph) joins us on the line, Michael with us from San Rafael.

MICHAEL (Caller): Hey, how are you doing?

CONAN: Very well, thanks.

MICHAEL: So yeah, I'm hi, Wylie. I'm a fellow artist. I'm actually working at Skywalker Ranch right now. But anyway, I was just I was calling sound editing, sound mixing, all of those are really important categories. If you took all of those away, it would be really hard to watch the movie just standing on dialogue alone.

CONAN: So Michael, you root for the sound, you wait for the sound categories?

MICHAEL: Who am I rooting for? I'm rooting for "Avatar" because I'm working right now with some of the people who worked on it, and they're my buds.

CONAN: Okay, but it's so it's a personal thing.

MICHAEL: Yeah, it's a personal thing, but I loved the movie. But "Inglourious Basterds" - both of them are fantastic.

CONAN: Because you might be working for Wylie one of these days.

MICHAEL: I mean, I hope so. I'm over at Universal, so but right now, it's Skywalker.

HORWITZ: Michael brings up a good point, though, that I want to ask you, Wylie, because you said he roots for his buds. And my question is: What do you think about everybody in the academy rooting for voting on a category that's very technical and very precise?

Mr. STATEMAN: Well, I think, you know, it's reasonable enough. You know, after all, it's the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Science, and it's largely populated by actors, but it's almost, you know, equally populated by craftspeople, of which I think actors would consider themselves, as well.

CONAN: Some actors.

Mr. STATEMAN: But I think when you talk about, you know, having personal, vested interest in one particular project or another, I think that's human nature. The other aspect of it is that we are artists, and we are creative people, and we're always looking to explore the fringes of our given areas.

And each of us - and foley is a wonderful opportunity to explore, as well. So my hat's off to you. But each of us tend to focus on our particular area, but it's we live in very small communities.

CONAN: Wylie, we've got to take a break. So that's the radio craftsmanship here. We're going to be back with more on TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

(Soundbite of music)

CONAN: In the run-up to the Oscars this is TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. I'm Neal Conan in Washington. We're talking with our movie pal, Murray Horwitz, about the Academy Awards, not the best picture or leading actor categories they're overrated. We're talking about the good stuff: sound mixers, cinematographers, makeup artists and the documentaries.

We've talked about all five nominees over the past few weeks. Do you root for best set design, makeup, costumes and why? 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org.

In a few minutes, we're going to talk with an Oscar-winning director about what it takes to make an Oscar-winning Best Documentary Feature. We're talking with Wylie Stateman right now. He's nominated for an Oscar this year in sound editing for "Inglourious Basterds." He's currently working on Ridley Scott's latest, "Robin Hood." And let's get another caller on the line. This is April(ph), April calling us from San Antonio.

APRIL (Caller): Hi, Neal.

CONAN: Hi, April. Go ahead, please.

APRIL: I was just going to say, I'm calling from just a viewer's perspective. You know, your last caller was talking about technical refinements like engineers, voting for engineers, but you know, from a viewer's point, like with "The Hurt Locker," that the sound that the character made while he was in his uniform or in his...

CONAN: Oh, in that big suit.

HORWITZ: The bomb suit.

APRIL: Yes, yeah, in his bomb suit. You know, that to me was an integral part of the character.

CONAN: Indeed. Wylie, I'm sure you saw the picture, and did you admire that?

Mr. STATEMAN: I did, Neal, and I saw the picture twice. And I would've seen it a second time right after I saw it the first time, I enjoyed it that much.

But you know, that's a great example. The suspense in that film is really derived from the proximity to sound. So there are times when you're cocooned in that suit that he's wearing, and some event is occurring, and it's too close. And the sound of that event really is a very, very important contributor to the anxiety and the suspense.

HORWITZ: And also silence. I mean, one of the it's like a good composer. A good sound editor has to use and in that movie, they use silence very well to build suspense.

CONAN: That scene where they walk off into the dark.

Mr. STATEMAN: Absolutely.

CONAN: Unbelievable. April, thanks very much for the call, appreciate it.

APRIL: Thank you.

CONAN: And Wylie, we're going to let you get back to work, but I do have to ask: How much of a difference, a professional difference, does it make? If you win an Oscar for Best Sound Editing, are you more or less guaranteed to be working the next five, 10 years?

Mr. STATEMAN: You know, I think, Neal, it's not really so much about that. I think that working in this business is really, it's a labor love, which is often described at, and as long as you feel that love for the process, then there are jobs, and there are projects, and there are people that want you on the team.

CONAN: Wylie Stateman, thank you very much, and good luck.

HORWITZ: Good luck, Wylie.

Mr. STATEMAN: Thank you so much. Thank you, Murray. Thank you, Neal.

CONAN: Wylie Stateman, nominated for an Oscar this year in sound editing for "Inglourious Basterds," and he's currently on Ridley Scott's latest, which is "Robin Hood," indeed called us from the studio there.

HORWITZ: You know, one of the things that I think ought to be said before we leave the sound categories altogether, and this also has to do with the actual recording, that is, sound mixers: Take the lobby and the theater scene, the end, the climax and end of "Inglourious Basterds." There is so much going on. You have dialogue. You have dialogue coming from a movie that they're all watching in the theater. You have people screaming. You have sound effects. You have music. You just, all this is going on, and sorting that out and, as Wylie said, making sense of it for the viewer is an enormous job. It's a creative job, and my hat's off to him.

CONAN: And think about the sound editing involved in a film, an animated picture like "Up!," where all of the dialogue is set to mouths that are moving. I mean, just listen to this clip and think about it.

(Soundbite of movie, "Up!")

(Soundbite of animal call)

Mr. JORDAN NAGAI (Actor): (As Russell) Guess what that one was?

Mr. ED ASNER (Actor): (As Carl Fredricksen) Annoying?

Mr. NAGAI: (As Russell) No. It's a puma. I know all kinds of calls.

(Soundbite of animal calls)

Mr. NAGAI: (As Russell) Bob white. Bob white.

(Soundbite of animal growling)

Mr. ASNER: (As Carl) What was that one? That actually sounded pretty good.

(Soundbite of laughter)

HORWITZ: Edward Asner as the grouch in "Up!," and you know, that's also a good example of something we didn't talk too much about, which is the sound mixing Oscar because all those things are, of course, recorded in a studio or on a soundstage. So all that what's called looping and all that ADR, additional dialogue recording, that's the job of the sound mixers. And they do a great job in that film.

CONAN: Well, as much as we're interested in audio here on National Public Radio - costume.

HORWITZ: Yeah. Here, there's a kind of unified-field theory, if you will, certainly between costumes and makeup and even costumes, makeup and art direction, and that's, after all, along with the people, the actors, everything that you see in the movie.

And there's a kind of tension, Neal, when I say there's a unified-field theory, in that the voters tend to you'll see, for example, in costume and makeup, there are always a lot of period pictures, right, and art direction, a lot of period you know, this year, you know, "The Young Victoria" and "Bright Star" and things like that.

And the reason is that those often win is that voters tend to look for pleasing and beautiful. One art director told me, he said, you know, it does tend to become a beauty contest. A costume designer told me, I said: What do voters look for in costumers? She said: They look for anything they can't buy at the store.

So something that period pieces tend to get votes, something that's important design, design that calls attention to itself tends to get the votes, but that's not necessarily the goal of good design. The goal of good design is to bring the realized version of the movie to the public.

CONAN: Here's a tweet we got from Lisa J. Rose(ph). Do you root for unsung categories? Yes, because I work in that industry. People like me are what make and break films that win. We starve most of the time. Oscar equals a job and security.

HORWITZ: Yeah, that's true.

CONAN: Let's get a caller on. This is Jill(ph), Jill with us from Ann Arbor.

JILL (Caller): Yes, hi, good afternoon.

CONAN: Good afternoon.

JILL: Costume, set design, that type of thing, period pieces, for me, just coming from the arts background that I come from, the accuracy of the past with a twist of the 21st century. That's what I look for, something...

CONAN: That brings the past alive for you.

JILL: Yeah, exactly. That's it, Neal.

CONAN: And I wonder. Murray, period pieces must have a huge advantage in the costume category.

HORWITZ: Well, they do, and the reason they have an advantage, actually I actually talked to a costume designer, as I mentioned, and I said okay, I can understand why voters, who are not costume designers, are impressed by that gorgeous gown in the 19th-century waltz scene. But why do the costume designers themselves nominate so many period pictures? And she said: You know why? Because the truth is any costume designer would kill to design a period picture.

So clearly something that's impressive. I mean, period design is good. And accuracy I'm glad Jill mentioned. Accuracy is very important. In best makeup, it'll be really interesting to see, where there are only three nominees, who wins this year because one of the nominees, "Young Victoria," takes place at a time when, unlike the 18th century, makeup was not in fashion. Nobody used paint and powder. You didn't so now the makeup artists in "The Young Victoria" have to make up often very beautiful women in ways that makes it look like they're not wearing makeup.

CONAN: Let's go next to Steve(ph), Steve with us from Cleveland.

STEVE (Caller): Hey, how are you doing?

CONAN: Good.

STEVE: So I live in Cleveland originally, I'm from Cleveland, but my permanent residence right now is New York City. And I've been acting in films and independent, short features for about two years now. And I would say that one of the most important parts of costume as an award is how it affects the performance.

From an actor's perspective, I really don't feel as much like the character until I see myself in the mirror in the costume. When you get into that mode, and you start to really want to create a person and create something, you can't just do it, you know, in a T-shirt and shorts. You look in the mirror, and when you start to see the character you've created visually for yourself, you start to realize who that is, and you really...

CONAN: The snappy patter comes a little quicker when you can snap the brim of your fedora.

HORWITZ: It's true.

STEVE: Exactly, exactly, and it's I mean, it's so integral to so many things. It really creates a new world. I can't imagine, you know, to reference a movie that's, you know, upcoming is the "Alice in Wonderland" feature with Tim Burton, and you know, I can't imagine having to do that role without the fantastic costume design that allows you to get into that sort of, you know, strange, otherworldly feeling.

And I think it's really important because we all watch the acting awards, and we all care about who the actors are, but the reality is they wouldn't be as capable of doing what they do without being able to feel like that character, and the costume design is extremely integral to that.

HORWITZ: I've got a question for you, Steve, about that. I talked to one costume designer who's done a lot of independent features, Mimi Maxmen in New York, and she gave me the greatest, concise definition. She said: Good design is character definition through costume.

STEVE: I couldn't agree more.

HORWITZ: And she said it's not enough to just look good on the actor. It's got to help the actor. My question to you is: American actors are known for kind of internalizing and building the character from within, whereas, say, British actors start from the outside in. Which do you do? I mean, is the costume more important than building the inner life of the character?

STEVE: You know, I think that if you really internalize the character too much, and I'm coming I studied in British technique acting. I will admit I studied with a coach from Old Vic in Bristol, and so I'm very British technique. But I will say that my feeling is that if you internalize the character too much, you start to let your own personal biases wear off on that character, and you become less authentic.

HORWITZ: And a good costume can save you.

STEVE: For me, internalizing it, like with costume or with the sound of the language, is more important because it allows you to really assume the role of someone else without it interrupting, you know, who you are or without who you are interrupting the character.

HORWITZ: So a good costume can actually save an actor from herself or himself.

STEVE: Oh, absolutely.

(Soundbite of laughter)

HORWITZ: Good thing.

STEVE: (Unintelligible) for sure.

CONAN: Steve, thanks very much and good luck to you.

STEVE: Thank you.

CONAN: Bye-bye. Email question from Michael(ph) in Tucson. Why is there no award for best stuntman or stuntwoman?

HORWITZ: It's a good question, and it's been brought up before. There are some famous, famous stunt movies. I'm thinking right off the top of my head, of "It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World." The answer is I don't know. For many, many years, people were saying, well, for goodness' sake, why isn't there an Oscar for best costume? And there wasn't for the first 20 years of the Oscars. So maybe one day. Some Oscar categories have gone -have come and gone.

CONAN: Over the past month, we've been talking with the creators and some of the featured players in this year's Oscar-nominated documentary features.

(Soundbite of movie, "Food, Inc.")

Mr. RICHARD LOBB (Director of Communications, National Chicken Council): In a way, we're not producing chickens. We're producing food. It's all highly mechanized. So all the birds coming off those farms have to be almost exactly the same size.

(Soundbite of movie, "Burma VJ")

Unidentified Woman: The Democratic Voice of Burma or DVB uses satellite TV and shortwave radio to send views of the protests around the world.

(Soundbite of movie, "The Cove")

Mr. RIC O'BARRY: It's a dolphin's worst nightmare right there. Hundreds of thousands of dolphins have died there.

(Soundbite of movie, "Which Way Home")

Mr. ANDREW ADOSMAY (Agent, United States Border Patrol): Here's a six-year-old kid, doesn't know anything about life. His parents placed him in the hands of some person they don't even know, some person that will get drunk, use drugs, smuggles dope. They shouldn't be surprised if their kid never makes it.

(Soundbite of movie, "The Most Dangerous Man in America")

Mr. DANIEL ELLSBERG (Former US Military Analyst): Very soon, you'll come to think that everyone else is foolish. What would this expert be telling me if he knew what I knew? So in the end, you stop listening too.

CONAN: "Food, Inc.," "Burma VJ," "The Cove," "Which Way Home," and "The Most Dangerous Man in America." Today, we wrap up our series with the look at what makes an Oscar worthy in documentary.

And we turn to Lynne Littman, an Oscar-winning documentary filmmaker herself, now a member of the Board of Governors with the Academy, on the documentary branch, with us today from our studios at NPR West in Culver City.

Nice to have you with us today.

Ms. LYNNE LITTMAN (Director): Thank you. It's lovely to be here.

CONAN: And what makes an Oscar-winning documentary?

Ms. LITTMAN: Oh, it's as subjective as what color of blouse I want to wear today. It really is a subjective thing.

For me, I actually place a pretty heavy burden on a filmmaker - on a documentary filmmaker. I want to feel different about the world when I leave the theater - or finish watching a doc, hopefully, when I leave the theater - than I did walking in. I think that documentaries get made on passion. And I'm ready to be convinced of something when I walk in and, hopefully, when I leave.

CONAN: We're talking about the other Oscars that you'll see on Sunday night.

You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

And, Lynne Littman, as you look at these films, is it - work the same way Murray was telling us for the other categories, that only the documentarians choose the category, but then everybody votes?

Ms. LITTMAN: It actually does. It's not quite everybody votes. Everybody who gets to see the films vote. The docs go through three rounds of voting. The first round is by - there's a documentary branch, finally. It's only about 10 years old, which was incredibly important and terrific that it got put into place by the Academy, because it really is a field that deserves the expertise of peer, of colleagues.

The first round is - it's all voluntary, because we owe the Academy, because they gave us a branch. It's a real effort to get as many people out to vote as they can or see the films. And then the first round is down to 15 - 12 to 15 films. Then there's a second round again of another round of volunteer viewers that takes it down to the five. And then - the five nominees, that is. And then people have to actually come to the theater and prove that they've seen all five films before they can vote on the winner.

And that's, I've always felt, the fairest of all the branches in the Academy. It's sort of the simplest and clearest and most honest way to do it. You have to have seen the films.

HORWITZ: It's also true. The best foreign pictures, as well.

Ms. LITTMAN: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. And that takes hours and hours. I did that this year.

CONAN: And isn't it an anomaly this year? But all of these are - could be characterized as cause pictures, and very largely, liberal cause pictures?

Ms. LITTMAN: Well, I don't know why more conservative people don't get out and make films. Maybe they're stuck on Rush Limbaugh's radio show. It would be interesting. I don't know why that happens. I don't know if they're liberal cause they're causes that have to do with justice in many cases.

CONAN: Well, "Burma VJ" certainly covers both sides of the political spectrum.

Ms. LITTMAN: It does. And certainly, whoever puts his life at risk by filming is neither liberal or conservative, he's brave - or she.

CONAN: Somebody's calling to tell you you're on the radio. They're listening to you.

Ms. LITTMAN: My God.

HORWITZ: I - but I have a question, Lynne, which is with the people who are, I guess, not working at that time, you know, doing the nominating -I mean, won't people have to get there to see them? And I think you're right. That's a good requirement.

This was a kind of a scandal in the foreign picture category, years ago, because they figured - they - a lot of people thought the only people who had time to see all these movies that they then had to nominate -and there is like, you know, 30-something movies - were people who weren't working, who are older, and as a result, justice wasn't done, not always were the best pictures nominated. Do you think the best documentaries are generally nominated year after year?

Ms. LITTMAN: I think - I actually think so because, first of all, documentary filmmakers, as most filmmakers, work on irregular schedules so that you are available for chunks of time.

CONAN: Mm-hmm.

Ms. LITTMAN: And the other part of it is we know each other's work. We see it in different venues and different kinds of screenings. And the myth of - in the documentary branch, certainly - the myth of the fact that this is not a jury of one's peers is a myth.

CONAN: We just have a few seconds left. I'm sorry to cut you off there.

Ms. LITTMAN: Sure, sure.

CONAN: But I wanted to ask you if you have a favorite amongst this year's nominees. The voting's over, so nobody can pay attention to what you say.

Ms. LITTMAN: Well, I can't name favorites. Actually, my favorites didn't get nominated.

CONAN: Really?

Ms. LITTMAN: How is that for democracy?

(Soundbite of laughter)

HORWITZ: Ah, so maybe justice hasn't been done.

CONAN: Well, I had to say

Ms. LITTMAN: Oh, well...

CONAN: I saw all five. I have to say it's between "Burma VJ" and "The Cove."

HORWITZ: Oh, really?

Ms. LITTMAN: Good luck to them all.

CONAN: Good luck to them all. And we thank their directors and producers. Somebody else is calling to say you're on the radio.

Ms. LITTMAN: Not me, not me.

CONAN: Not you this time. We thank them all for making themselves available. And Lynne Littman, thank you so much for your time today.

Ms. LITTMAN: Thank you. Bye-bye.

CONAN: Lynne Littman, an Oscar-winning documentarian, and she serves on the board of governors representing the documentary branch of the Academy, with us from NPR West. Murray, as always, thanks very much.

HORWITZ: Always a pleasure, Neal. Thank you.

CONAN: All right. (Unintelligible) Murray Horwitz here in Studio 3A. Stay with us. We're going to be talking about rape on campus. This is NPR News. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright National Public Radio.