'Three Strikes' Law Packs California Prisons

ALEX COHEN, host:

This is DAY TO DAY from NPR News. I'm Alex Cohen.

ALEX CHADWICK, host:

I'm Alex Chadwick.

Three strikes and you're out, or in the case of California, you're in - in prison for good. The three strikes law has California prisons now dangerously overcrowded and subject to federal monitoring.

NPR news analyst Ted Koppel has a new documentary about these prisons on the Discovery Channel on Sunday. And Ted spoke about it with DAY TO DAY's Madeleine Brand.

MADELEINE BRAND, host:

Alex, one thing Ted saw was this - a prison that is divided along racial lines. It's one of the only ways to keep the peace in a place where inmates far outnumber guards.

TED KOPPEL: You have triple-decker bunks, and at one end of the gymnasium, there is a color-coded chart, which the correctional officers keep. And one color is for the black beds, and one color is for the white beds, and one color is for the Hispanic beds. And everybody knows that you don't walk between these two decks of bunks because that's a black alley. And the next one over is a white alley. And the one over from that is the Hispanic alley. And it is segregated as much as any old Southern community used to be segregated 50 years ago.

Unidentified Man #1: The problem with the racism is that the administration, they kind of keep it going.

Unidentified Man #2: Condone.

Unidentified Man #1: They condone the segregation.

Unidentified Man #3: When a war happens between races, we have to be there for each other. So with the whites, we can't say you're a Crip or a Blood, if we get into it with white or a Mexican population. So we come together.

BRAND: So why do the prison authorities not only allow it, but encourage this kind of segregation?

KOPPEL: To maintain some kind of order. If they were trying to maintain absolute order themselves, they don't have the manpower to do it. Inside this one gymnasium, which holds about 320, 330 inmates, there is one guard up in a catwalk with a gun, and then there were two unarmed correctional officers on a little stage at one end of the gym. So if the prisoners wanted to overpower them, they could do it very quickly, very easily.

BRAND: Judges are considering, though, ordering the release of some inmates. What do prison officials think of that?

KOPPEL: Well, they actually believe it would make more sense if they are given a chance to do things the right way. What they are saying is that we really need to be able to use money - not so much necessarily for the building of new prisons, although that's important - we need money for vocational training. We need money so that these guys can earn GEDs. We need money for anger management programs, drug rehabilitation programs.

And the point they're making is 80 to 90 percent of all of these inmates are going to be out in the street again someday. And when they are, if they haven't been cured of their drug habit, if they haven't learned a new vocation, something that enables them to earn a decent living, then the only thing they will have learned is how to become better criminals. And in a matter of a few days, few weeks, few months at the most, they're going to be around that revolving door again and back in prison, and the overcrowding problem just gets even worse.

BRAND: Which brings me to Travis Tippets, and you profile him in your documentary a sort of a typical inmate. He's a repeat offender. He's received little to no rehabilitation inside. And you follow him as he gets released.

KOPPEL: Right. And last time he was paroled, he was out for less than 24 hours because he went to a bar, didn't like something that's somebody said, punched the guy out, and was back in prison again within a matter of days. This time, he's out. California law requires that he'd be released back to the community where he did the crime. And he's learned nothing. You know, we have a scene where he is being advised by someone at the unemployment office, who says to him, you know, have you ever used a mouse.

(Soundbite of TV documentary, "Koppel on Discovery: Breaking Point")

Unidentified Woman: You move it around.

Mr. TRAVIS TIPPETS: No. No.

Unidentified Woman: No.

Mr. TIPPETS: Well, I have, a couple of times. But, you know, it's not like I actually was. Yeah.

Unidentified Woman: Mm-hmm. And just highlight that. And do you know what highlight means?

Mr. TIPPETS: No.

She says have you ever used a computer. And I'm scared, you know. Yeah, it's heard for a man to admit that but I was scared and I was intimidated, you know. And a man shouldn't feel scared and intimated when he's trying to find a job.

KOPPEL: We actually hear him say, you know, I mean, this is so frustrating that I find myself thinking I'd be better off back in prison again, because at least there I know what's expected of me.

BRAND: NPR senior news analyst Ted Koppel. His documentary "Breaking Point" airs Sunday night on the Discovery Channel. Ted, thank you very much.

KOPPEL: Thank you. It's a pleasure talking to you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright National Public Radio.