The bombing and shooting and dying isn't over. And political leaders are still talking about the necessity of success. But in high-level strategic circles, there is plenty of talk that America has already lost the war in Iraq.
Christopher J. Fettweis, a grand strategy guru at the US Naval War College, takes that as a given - American defeat. And when the whole country wakes up to that, he says, there is going to be hell to pay. An "Iraq syndrome" that could make America's post-Vietnam blues look like peanuts.
We don't wish it. But odds are, he says, it's coming.
This hour On Point: get ready for the post-Iraq world.
John Anderson, correspondent for the Washington Post in Baghdad.;
Christopher J. Fettweis, assistant professor of national security affairs at the U.S. Naval War College.
David Kennedy, historian at Stanford University.
This program aired on June 14, 2007.