Rising Number Of Western Mass. Vaccine Skeptics A Quandary For Doctors

AMHERST, Mass. — After two measles cases were recently diagnosed in Boston, public health officials issued a warning reminding the public that the disease can spread fast among the unvaccinated — or about 3 percent of the state’s population.

They flagged western Massachusetts in particular for its rising number of parents who decline or delay recommended immunizations. And that’s creating a quandary for many pediatricians concerned about old diseases making a comeback.

When Anna Popp was pregnant with her daughter five years ago, she had no trouble finding reams of information on childhood vaccines. For one, she’s a professional librarian. And the topic is hot these days.

“There’s books, there’s magazines, there’s popular stuff, but I also have access to a bevy of academic databases,” Popp said. “Some stuff I had to put aside because it was too technical and I couldn’t understand it.”

She felt she understood enough to question what pediatricians were telling her about vaccine safety. Some parents are still worried by a famous 1998 study linking vaccines to autism, even though that study has been widely debunked and retracted. Popp has different concerns; she doesn’t trust the vaccine ingredients or the high number of shots kids get.

“Is she gonna have a seizure? Is her fever gonna peak at 105 degrees?” Popp said. “Those can all start on a downward trend.”

Popp and her husband have accepted some vaccines for their daughter, like polio, and refused others, like chicken pox. They also delayed some shots until after the ages recommended by pediatricians, including hepatitis B, and the measles, mumps and rubella — or MMR — vaccine.

“I just felt if I could put some of these off until later, I would rather not overburden my child’s system with a bunch of toxic organisms,” she said.

While studies show there are rare side effects from vaccines, scientists say there’s no evidence that the standard vaccine schedule overwhelms a child’s immune system, or that the ingredients at these doses are toxic. Popp says she knows that, but “it’s just what sits well with me. You’ve got to make a decision based on your own intellect and your own conscience.”

Popp is certainly not as anti-vaccine as some, but she does represent a growing population of skeptics that pediatricians like John Snyder find maddeningly hard to argue with.

“Ironically, the more educated you are the more you are brought up in a culture where you are emboldened to question authority and know how to read up on things and to make choices for yourself, the more likely you are to make the wrong choice in this case,” he said.

Snyder, who lectures nationally in favor of vaccines, works at Amherst Pediatrics in Hampshire County — which, like Franklin and Berkshire counties, has rates of vaccine refusal around three times the state average. Snyder used to work in Springfield and New York City, where he says many of his low-income patients missed their regular shots due to spotty health care. But those communities still have higher vaccination rates than wealthier ones, where more parents claim a medical or religious exemption from school vaccine requirements.

“I feel for them because I know they’re dealing with a lot of misinformation,” Snyder said. “And they’re struggling to make the right choice. But if we see this trend continue, we’re talking about the emergence of some really nasty diseases.”

That’s because “herd immunity” — where the unvaccinated few rely on the disease-free majority to stay safe — can disappear with a slight shift in numbers.

“It’s a plane ride away,” Snyder said. “And if you think you can hide in this country unvaccinated, you’re wrong because the larger our little pockets of under-vaccination get, the more likely some kid’s going to come over from another country where these things are endemic and give it to your community.”

Snyder thinks if vaccine skeptics understood that danger — along with the scientific method behind vaccine trials — they’d be less likely to shun the advice of the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Centers for Disease Control. But many of them believe the medical establishment is at best fallible, and at worst, beholden to pharmaceutical companies that make vaccines. And that creates tension in the exam room.

“These pediatricians clearly shut down when I bring up vaccination ideas,” said Popp, who goes to a pediatric practice in Northampton. “When you leave now, you get a little form that tells you everything that’s been done, and down at the bottom is this coyly worded, ‘Has a history of undervaccinations.’ And although it’s certainly phrased very objectively, it feels judgmental.”

Word does get around which doctors are receptive to vaccine skeptics. Greenfield Pediatrics, for example, has been praised on alternative parenting websites. That prompted the doctors there, including Sarah Rourke, to review their vaccine records.

“What we ended up seeing was we had one provider who had a higher number of patients and families who opted out of your traditional immunization schedule,” Rourke explained.

So they created a more standardized vaccine script based on CDC recommendations and now require parents who still refuse vaccines to sign a form saying they’re going against medical advice.

“Some families are going to have some alternative viewpoints to immunizations,” Rourke said. “So we wanted to make sure that we maintain that respect, but also just stress the education.”

John Snyder actively tries to change the minds of resistant parents — and sometimes succeeds. But he’d like to see a state law making it more difficult for parents to get vaccine waivers — a hard sell politically. He just hopes it doesn’t take a disease outbreak to drive the point home.

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  • fun bobby

    the problem is that you never know which year the elites will decide to kill off everyone who gets the flu shot.

  • fun bobby

    have you ever met anyone with polio? I did have a puppy who died from a vaccine side effect. one should weight the risks carefully

    • E. Houde

      I have met people who had polio as children. It’s an awful disease and the safe, proven vaccine has been so effective it has been nearly eradicated from the west. Unfortunately, there are some countries that have not been fully vaccinated (such as Pakistan) and they can still bring it over here. The CDC website indicates America is now certified polio free but the danger is if someone brings it here and we’re not vaccinated for it – http://www.cdc.gov/polio/progress/

      • fun bobby

        some diseases are more prevalent than others but otherwisethat’s pretty much the same for all the vaccines.

  • mirnad

    Too many humanities professors out there.

    They believe in the postmodernist rejection of an objective truth and distrust of authority.

    The vaccines either cause a chemical reaction that makes you sick or they don’t. It’s not something you can have an opinion on. If you don’t understand the scientific literature defer to the people who do.

    • Lawrence

      Oh, sure, let’s trust authority. The politicians and Dr.s always act in the best interest of we the people.

      Just like the wonderful Rick Perry, who forced teen-age girls to get vaccinated in the state of Texas, all the while receiving huge campaign donations from the drug companies selling these vaccines.

      You can trust the likes of Rick Perry, the Government and some of these medical Dr.s who are working for the drug companies, but the more informed will make choices for ourselves.

      • Todd W.

        Who is saying “trust authority”? No one. Everyone is human, but that does not mean that we should simply dismiss out of hand what is said. Look at the evidence (real evidence, not the twisted distortions of anti-vaccine activists) and make a truly informed choice. What you will find is that those who cry out the loudest against vaccines are big on talk, but short on actual, reliable data. They play on emotions, especially fear, to plant seeds of doubt. Some of the slicker operators are subtle about it; they sound reasonable, unless you actually investigate what they’re claiming, at which point you find that they are leaving out important information that contradicts their claims.

        Lawrence, since you are quite outspoken, let me ask you this: are there any vaccines that you would say are good and people should get? If yes, which ones? If no, why not?

      • mirnad

        Oh yeah, I forgot the postmodernist deep seeded paranoia that it’s all a big conspiracy. The numbers are all made up, the scientists are all liars, the parents burying their children dead of measles is all an illusion perpetuated by big pharma is all a charade and not one of the thousands of people that must be working to perpetuate this con has spoken up.

        Trust YOUR GUT. YOU know better.

      • JGC

        Luckily we don’t need to either trust or distrust authorities: there’s a very large body of evidence attesting to the safety and efficacy of vaccines.

        • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

          prove it!

  • mirnad

    You are factually incorrect. There are several studies of autism rates in vaccinated vs unvaccinated. They are reviewed many places, including here.

    It is free and open access.


    • Guest

      From the link you shared…
      “No studies have compared the incidence of autism in vaccinated, unvaccinated, or alternatively vaccinated children (i.e., schedules that spread out vaccines, avoid combination vaccines, or include only select vaccines). These studies would be difficult to perform because of the likely differences among these 3 groups in health care seeking behavior and the ethics of experimentally studying children who have not received vaccines.”

    • E Van

      From the link you shared…
      “No studies have compared the incidence of autism in vaccinated, unvaccinated, or alternatively vaccinated children (i.e., schedules that spread out vaccines, avoid combination vaccines, or include only select vaccines). These studies would be difficult to perform because of the likely differences among these 3 groups in health care seeking behavior and the ethics of experimentally studying children who have not received vaccines.”

      • mirnad

        So you’re going to experiment on your own kids? Great idea!

        • E Van

          Just pointing out your statement was “factually incorrect” per your own link…

  • Kathy

    How depressing, that people feel it’s OK to endanger their children and everyone around them in the name of “informed choice.” Vaccines are necessary for overall public health. I really hope it becomes a state law to make waivers harder to get.

    • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

      You take care of your family and I will take care of MINE! I will not allow my children to bear the weight of the whole world on their shoulders. They will NOT take a needle FOR YOU! Take your own damn needle!

      • Kathy

        No problem. My family and I have had all our immunizations. If you don’t want your kids immunized, please home school and keep them away from the general population.

  • rogger2

    It’s amazing how these liberal parents become rugged individualists when you bring their children into it.

    • dust truck

      Anti-vaccers are a special ideologue and usually they’re either liberal or conservative. Plenty of right-wing christians are anti-vaccers and so are the hippy types.

      • rogger2

        I agree with you 100% but I would guess this population in Western Mass falls under the liberal hippie classification.

        I don’t see a whole lot of far right-wingers in Western MA.

        • dust truck

          oh, right. I forgot the point of the article. lol

  • fun bobby

    that would be nice

  • townie1952

    An autistic child is better than a dead child.

    • E Van

      And healthy preferable to both.

      • townie1952

        truer words were never written

    • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

      Wow Townie…you have never seen THESE children have you? They ARE SICK!!!! They are living in HELL! They are not the pretty little happy, braniac savants you see in movies! They are SERIOUSLY SICK and live in hell every day, as do their caretakers.

      Have you seen how many of these children are dying right now just from walking into water? Autistic children of all levels are very drawn to water and are quick to slip away and head to water which leads to their death.

      2 weeks of Chickenpox, measles, the flu are MUCH better than an autistic OR dead child!!!

      “A false polarity is perpetuated that positions deaths and injuries from disease as somehow more tragic than deaths and injuries from vaccines. These are equal tragedies. No child deserves to be written off as collateral damage in the war on disease.”

      -Nancy Hokkanen

      • fun bobby

        I did not know they drowned themselves. that’s sad

      • Todd W.

        Except that it is not a choice between autism or disease. Vaccines, as far as all current evidence indicates, do not cause autism. Actually, the big irony is that there is one vaccine that prevents a known cause of autism: MMR. The rubella component can prevent a pregnant woman from being infected with the rubella virus, which can cause congenital rubella syndrome, one known cause of autism. Ironic that a vocal minority that believe vaccines cause autism argue against a vaccine that can prevent some cases of autism.

        • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

          ALL vaccines are suspect, not just one and it isn’t just vaccines. Research Cytokine Storm and Tylenol usage during or after administration of vaccines. Even if Rubella caused “some” cases of autism. If we took out the debilitating cases of autism caused BY vaccines and other pharmaceuticals and other environmental exposures and toxins that number would be so insignificant in the scheme of things and again Rubella can be treated and prevented through other means. Pharmaceuticals are NOT the only way to “health”.

          • Todd W.

            “If we took out the debilitating cases of autism caused BY vaccines and
            other pharmaceuticals and other environmental exposures and toxins that
            number would be so insignificant in the scheme of things and again
            Rubella can be treated and prevented through other means.”

            And what is your evidence for this claim?

      • townie1952

        I have seen many autistic children, I also grew up with 3 children that were deaf after having measles in the days before the vaccines. That was one class year of 120 children and 3 became deaf.
        You don’t have to be autistic to drown, or be attracted to water. Many children are fascinated by water. Any child that is not supervised around water is at risk for drowning.
        There is absolutely no proof that vaccines cause autism.
        IMHO, I would suspect that contaminants in the environment are a more likely cause.

        • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

          Which is nonsense because children are becoming autistic immediately after vaccines and pharmaceutical use. Not immediately after breathing the air in their neighborhood. Those are slow poisons and they do have real inherent dangers but they are not turning kids autistic over night.

          The point about drownings is how FAST and how many of these autistic children are Dying as well as the alarming rise in affected children.

          So not only are they affected by autism but then they are dying by alarming numbers because OF their illness which makes them VULNERABLE. So point is, these children are just deaths waiting to happen. It is not either or.

      • lilady R.N.

        You don’t get to pull that “walk in my shoes card” Nancy Hokkanen.

        My child was born with a rare genetic syndrome in 1976 which caused multiple and profound physical and intellectual impairments. He was also immune suppressed with a bleeding disorder (pancytopenia, ITP, Platelet Adhession and Aggragation disorders), a grand mal seizure disorder and “autistic-like” behaviors (DSM II Diagnostic Criteria). He fought to survive his many medical crises and died peacefully in his sleep at age 28, June 2004.

        Meanwhile, you and your cronies at Age of Autism promote dreadful, invasive, painful and dangerous *cures/treatments*, such as chemical castration, chelation for so-called “heavy metal toxicities”, enemas with industrial bleaching solutions and intrathecal IV stem cell infusions at filthy, unregulated off-shore clinics…not of which are medically indicated and which are a form of child abuse.

        So, run on back to your pals at AoA. Tell them whatever you and they are selling…we ain’t buying.

        • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

          I am not Her, that was simply a quote and I have no affiliation with this group. For your information. The quote and my comment stands all the same.

          • lilady R.N.

            Which anti-vaccine anti-science group are you affiliated with?

            How about taking some basic courses in immunology, bacteriology, virology and the epidemiology of vaccine-preventable-diseases, before you post your inanities?

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            Already have.

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            I love the holier than thou, superiority complex of “nurses”. We shall all bow down to the almighty nurses. The saviors and know-alls of the world! Oh mighty nurse, please inform me of my ignorance because you are all knowing and all seeing and no one can possibly know anything unless they have a little ol nursing degree.

  • Shawn_Siegel

    Parents research and educate, and realize that expecting better health to result from injection of disease antigens and an absurd list of known neurotoxins, DNA and RNA fragments from various species of animals and possibly human fetuses, bypassing the normal route of pathogen introduction and the natural function of the immune system, is contradictory and foolish, as demonstrated by the nature and number of serious and debilitating vaccine injuries, including death. Were doctors healers instead of trained vaccinators – pediatricians, especially – this would not be a quandary. It would be a welcome return to good health. Search “stories of unvaccinated children vaccineinjury.info”, and read some.

    • fun bobby

      so how about small pox?

      • Shawn_Siegel

        Yeah, how ’bout smallpox. Go to DissolvingIllusions.com/graphs and spend some time. Nine of the fifty-one graphs deal exclusively with smallpox, and show that disease outbreaks always followed on the heels of vaccination campaigns. And as far as global eradication goes, look up pictures of smallpox and monkey pox and see if you can tell the difference. Then tell me you’re confident that every time a disease is diagnosed it includes a lab analysis for confirmation.

        Funny how that works. Re-label a disease, and it disappears.

        • fun bobby

          I am sure there is some small pox somewhere. I bet most diseases called pox look similar and that’s why they call them all pox.
          I don’t follow links here for malware reasons. (I don’t even like my computer being infected with anything) do your graph show the numbers of people who died from smallpox in America before and after the vaccine was given to everyone?

          what have those fiendish vaccine makers relabled measles?

          that’s from an anti vaccination site. see how the numbers of deaths declines because of vaccination?

          • Shawn_Siegel

            What you mean is, see how the numbers of measles deaths had been declining steeply for the 40 years before the vaccine was introduced, in 1963.

          • fun bobby
          • Todd W.

            What those opposed to vaccines don’t want to see is how measles cases only declined after the vaccine was developed. Keep in mind, there are many more bad things that can happen from a disease besides death. For instance, measles can cause encephalitis, which may result in brain damage. A more common complications is pneumonia, which can lead to hospitalization. Modern medical care had gotten pretty good at preventing death. For example, if you get polio, instead of dying from the disease, modern care can keep you alive. What it can’t do is stop the other, non-fatal damage from the disease, like paralysis, deformation of limbs, etc. A vaccine can prevent that.

          • fun bobby

            not to mention polio can affect you later in life. one guy I know who had polio developed aggressive dementia in his fifties that destroyed his life and his family

          • Shawn_Siegel

            Educate. Polio wasn’t eradicated – they drastically re-defined and re-labeled the disease. It’s their standard operating procedure.

          • Todd W.

            You’re right. Polio has not (yet) been eradicated. However, you are wrong about the relabeling of the disease. Polio is defined as infection with the poliovirus. That virus has almost been eliminated from the wild. There are only a few countries where it is still endemic, thanks to the efforts of extremists opposed to the vaccine (e.g., in Pakistan and Afghanistan, vaccinators are targeted on a routine basis by gunmen).

            However, if you’d like to argue that infection with the poliovirus is called something else, do provide your evidence.

          • lilady R.N.

            That’s a lie being promulgated by the brain trust at Age of Autism. Is that the anti-vaccine anti-science website where you get all your information?

            Tsk, Tsk, there are much more reliable websites out there without resorting to the (non) science journalists at AoA.

          • Shawn_Siegel

            What you mean is, here is an obfuscation; here is a pointed statistical manipulation. I’m surprised this new graph doesn’t start in 1960 – it would have made the vaccine look even more effective at preventing deaths. Deleting most of the first half of the century from the first graph doesn’t change the fact that during those forty years mortality had declined, sharply and obviously, by about 80%. There seems to be little question that once the vaccine was introduced, the number of cases declined – though a portion of that decline might be otherwise explained – which would carry with it a de facto decline in deaths, but by ignoring the preceding decades, a terribly false picture is painted. By the 40′s, the measles death rate had fallen to statistical insignificance, never denying the tragedy that is the death of any child. In movies, cartoons and kid’s books of the era, measles was universally portrayed as a benign disease, which for anyone of moderately good health, and with proper care and treatment when necessary, it was – and still is.

          • fun bobby

            I am sure other medical advances helped to reduce the mortality rate as well. I bet if you had a chart with a much longer timespan like 200 or 1000 years you would see a wave that goes up and down until the vaccine is introduced and then it just goes down. I hope you get measles then you can learn how benign it is.

          • Shawn_Siegel

            Search for the Ratner report – a transcript of a panel of experts, hosted by the Illinois Medical Society, that spoke to the ongoing problems in the polio vaccination campaign. It details the radical changes the CDC made to the diagnostic parameters of paralytic polio in 1955, following on the heels of the introduction of the vaccine.

            Changing the definition of a disease at all, let alone drastically, right after a vaccine is released, is terrible statistical science – it obviously obfuscates any subsequent assessment of the effectiveness of the vaccine. They even changed the definition of a polio epidemic, from 20 cases in a population of 100,000, to 35 cases, potentially cutting almost in half the number of outbreaks that would then be labeled epidemics. Think about it. It makes no sense whatsoever, unless the goal was simply to give the impression that polio was somehow less threatening now that there was a vaccine.

            Have nice lives, ya’ll.

          • fun bobby

            polio is less threatening now that we have a vaccine.

          • Todd W.

            Yep, it’s totally benign, except for those who suffer dehydrating diarrhea, secondary pneumonia, the 1 in 1,000 or so who get encephalitis, or the 1-2 per 1,000 who die. But who care about them, right? They were just weak.

            Yes, deaths declined prior to the vaccine, but incidence (# of new cases) did not. The decline in deaths was thanks to improvements in medical care that kept people from dying. And I love how in the same breath you can point to the high death rates and say “it was viewed as benign”.

          • Shawn_Siegel

            The decline in deaths was due to improvements in public sanitation, in development of municipal water supplies, in refrigeration of food, and in the steadfast decline of incredibly threatening living conditions, such as the horrible corporate tenement housing that existed in the first half of the century.

            I didn’t point to the high death rates at all – I termed them statistically insignificant by the time the vaccine was introduced, acknowledging that the death of any child is tragic. I indeed said measles was viewed as benign, because it was, as borne out by the references I made to the movies and books of the era, which literally depicted measles as a non-concern – not life threatening. Did some kids suffer damage? – sure, but you can also suffer encephalitis, for instance, from a vaccine. The problem is that the great majority of serious vaccine injuries go unreported, so we literally don’t know its extent. If you research, however, you’ll see that over the last fifteen years or so, there have been a total of about twelve measles deaths, as per Vital Statistics, while the number of deaths from the MMR vaccine can realistically be put at several hundred per year, or more – and that doesn’t touch on the other serious vaccine-associated reactions recorded, from permanent disabilities to neurological disorders to extended hospitalization.

            You can’t eliminate risk from life, but the risk of damage from vaccines far outweighs the risk of damage from disease.

          • Todd W.

            “but you can also suffer encephalitis, for instance, from a vaccine”

            True, but at a much, much lower rate (1:1,000 for the virus, 1:1,000,000 for the vaccine). (source: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm#risk)

            “the number of deaths from the MMR vaccine can realistically be put at several hundred per year”

            Citation needed. This is the typical response: claims of horrible things blamed on the vaccine, but no actual evidence provided.

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            You mention things like improved sanitation, water quality, and refrigeration as contributing to the decline in measles but the disease is passed through the air. So how did these advance help with measles?

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            Because healthy people can handle these benign illnesses just fine.

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            First the comment I made was because measles transmission has nothing to do with sanitation, food, or water quality. It is a disease that is spread primarily through the air from person to person. Second any person regardless of health status runs the risk of contracting a disease if they are exposed to the pathogen unless they possess antibodies to the disease from a prior exposure or a vaccine.

          • ccdaddy

            If one gets the measles, they get a lifetime of immunity. That’s the perfect plan,that the creator set in place.

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            With all respect to individuals religious beliefs, I do not think any higher power would want a child to die or become severely injured.

          • ccdaddy

            Shawn, they are not here to find the truth. They are here to bury the truth. That’s their job!

          • lilady R.N.

            No. There is no smallpox anywhere. The last time it was on the Recommended Childhood Vaccine Schedule in the United States was 1971…my older child born 1970, was part of the last birth cohort to receive the vaccine at age one.

            For a number of years after that smallpox vaccine was required for travel to foreign countries where smallpox was endemic or where cases of the disease were reported.

            Smallpox was declared eradicated from the face of the earth on May 8, 1980:


          • fun bobby

            I recall hearing that the only smallpox was in labs in Moscow and here. they thought coelacanths were extinct as well for a while

        • lilady R.N.

          Smallpox has been eradicated from the face of the earth.

          Where are you getting your wrong information about vaccine-preventable diseases from?

  • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

    Foolhardy ignorance!

    “You can’t vaccinate believing that your children are protected and then feel that your children are not protected because somehow, some non-vaccinated child is carrying some secret organism that no one else is carrying. It just doesn’t make any sense.” — Dr. Larry Palevsky, pediatrician

    “…Vaccination does not stop people from carrying bacteria & viruses in their nose, in their throat, in their intestines, or in the airway, on the skin or on the body; or from transferring it to others. The public (has been) made to believe that if vaccinated, one won’t carry viruses and therefore others will be ‘protected’ because one is vaccinated. That’s not even possible and is definitely not true….” ~Dr. Larry Palevsky

    • fun bobby

      yes that is crazy talk. those are some straw man arguments for sure.
      anyone besides that one guy who wrote a book he is selling promoting that point of view?

      • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

        If you can’t get that then you have no hope whatsoever. It is as clear and plain as it can get and if no one else can get it, then I do not need their advice or expertise. They are criminal and ignorant to think or say otherwise.

        NO ONE walking around vaccinated or not are going to be sterile. WE will ALL carry diseases, viruses, bacteria, parasites etc. Whether or not you are vaccinated does NOT stop you from carrying disease.

        This is why 90% of the people who contracted whooping cough/pertussis in the last few years are all vaccinated. Because they are carriers of the bacteria even though they do not show symptoms. All the vaccine does it cause them to not display symptoms even while they are carrying the illness. This is from the CDC and official information. Not theories. This is truth. Look it up yourself.

    • Lawrence

      Well said.

    • kd

      I see Dr. Palevsky practices aromatherapy — this smells like quackery. His logic is — well not logic at all.

  • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

    They will also tell you all the lovely adds DDT is GOOD FOR ME!!!! And Agent Orange. And Gulf War Syndrome!

    • fun bobby

      ddt has, and continues to, save millions of lives all over the world.

  • kd

    It is NOT only the ones who don’t vaccinate who will get sick. No medicine or vaccine is 100% effective. Once there is a large enough pocket of folks who do not vaccinate then some of the folks who have been vaccinated, but upon whom the vaccine was not effective, will be exposed and will become sick from measles, or what have you. This is the flip side of what we mean by “herd immunity.”

    • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

      Herd immunity was NEVER meant to be used in reference to vaccinated individuals. There is no such thing as herd immunity in vaccines that is a farce!

      Herd Immunity only equates with real life disease transmission and immunity. Not vaccines.

  • fun bobby

    I have met people who had polio. I am all for vaccines. I was trying to illustrate how terrible the dieseases that vaccines are created to prevent are. my anecdote about my puppy is just an experience I have had with negative effects of vaccines. thus my statement that we should eight risks and benefits carefully. sorry I confused you.

  • fun bobby

    why the uncalled for rudeness? did you feel the need to phrase your statement as a question and make an ad hominum attack on me because you did not actually have an argument of any sort?
    I bet some Native Americans who died from smallpox would disagree with you but they are dead.

  • fun bobby

    I get vaccinated so I don’t catch a deadly disease from one of you before you die from it. I also do not want to die from a nick or cut but you have fun with tetanus.

    • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

      Dumbass…WASH YOUR WOUNDS and you have NO RISK OF TETANUS!!!! it is so freaking simple.

      • fun bobby

        next time you step on a rusty nail you just wash it real good. that ought to do it

        • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

          Again this is like blaming dysentery because you didn’t boil or filter your water.

          • fun bobby

            yes getting vaccinated to prevent disease is like boiling water to prevent disease in that they are logical and effective ways to prevent disease

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            “fun bobby – I also do not want to die from a nick or cut”

            I mean SERIOUSLY???


          • fun bobby

            i don’t know that acronym. countless people have died from infections. also if you want to expose yourself to some truly harmful western medicine get an infection of some sort so that you need antibiotics that will kill off all your benign bacteria as well

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            You seem to think that pharmaceuticals are the only way to treat or heal your body. Why would I take pharmaceutical antibiotics when there are so many herbal ones that do a far better job at taking care of the opportunistic bacteria without wiping out your healthy flora and leaving you with damaging biofilm.

            Again there are many ways to treat the body without the need of vaccines nor antibiotics.

          • fun bobby

            yeah drink some goldenseal or something when you have an acute systemic infection. I am all for homeopathic and herbal remedies and have used plenty. i completely support your right to use whatever voodoo you wish but its foolhardy to ignore the proven benefits and minimal risks of vaccines.

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            “fun bobby-yes getting vaccinated to
            prevent disease is like boiling water to prevent disease in that they are logical and effective ways to prevent disease”

            So you are saying you got dysentery because you were vaccine deficient? Not because you didn’t take proper precautions to prepare your water?

          • fun bobby

            I haven’t got dysentery what are you talking about?

        • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

          Yes…is it that hard? But by all means please keep getting your tetanus shot because it is so hard to use simple measure to avoid illness such as washing your hands and washing your wounds.

          Even doctors didn’t even realize that after working on dead people they didn’t need to wash their hands before trying to deliver a living baby. Because well, dead people don’t have germs. ALLLLLL the MIDWIVES were telling them they were the ones causing all the maternal deaths but did they listen? NO! This had been known for EONS before “doctors” started sticking their hands where they don’t belong.

          “Puerperal fever, also known as childbed fever,
          was a disease mediated by doctor arrogance. Dr. Oliver Wendell Holmes
          of the United States and Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis of Austria were prominent,
          long-suffering advocates for women, who tried to get
          the medical profession to wash their hands and practice more like the
          traditional midwives did. Both were ignored and even professionally
          attacked for their views. After years of mental anguish, watching women
          die needlessly, they left the field of medicine in disgust. Dr. Holmes
          became a writer. In 1865 Dr. Semmelweis was deceived into entering an
          insane asylum and when he tried to escape, he was severely beaten by
          guards. A gangrenous wound to his hand, probably caused by the beating,
          led to his untimely death two weeks later.”

          • fun bobby

            that has nothing to do with tetanus or vaccines. I don’t disagree that paradigm shift has occurred many times in medicine and that western medicine does not have all the answers. I am into alternative medicine even hippies in Amherst haven’t even heard of yet. tetanus vaccines are something that has saved countless lives. if you think you can adequately clean out a deep puncture wound and completely disinfect it may God help you. I stepped on a thorn that went completely through my shoe just a few days ago but it happened to go right between my toes, by grace it seemed.. A rusty puddle with a nail in it is an anaerobic environment where tetanus can thrive the proverbial rusty nail is not the exact cause of the disease. one is much more likely to catch it on a thorn like the one that almost impaled me. if one catches tetanus its a terrible horrible way to die. why risk it?

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            I can’t sit here and help you connect the dots.

          • fun bobby

            I have had plenty of tetanus shots what terrible risk am I taking that’s worse than tetanus and dying of lockjaw?

  • Catherine J Frompovich

    Readers may want to know about my new book that discusses toxic ingredients in vaccines: Vaccination Voodoo, What YOU Don’t Know About Vaccines, available Oct. 4, 2013 on Amazon.com. Catherine J Frompovich, Consumer Healthcare Researcher & Author


    • Lawrence

      Thank you for writing that book and informing us. This article, like most about health on this site is PRO drugs.

      They even quote the “expert” Dr. as saying the more informed and well read we are, the more we “the stupid” public make the wrong medical choices. How demeaning! How arrogant.

      • fun bobby

        vaccines are not drugs, but you are as well read as a doctor I am sure.

        • Lawrence

          No, but it’s the DRUG COMPANIES that push both, because they profit on both.

          Actually I AM as well read as a doctor, because I AM a doctor.

          • fun bobby

            Sure they sell their products. as a doctor I would hope you would be more precise what are you a doctor of?

          • lilady R.N.

            I’m calling you on that comment “Doctor Lawrence”.

            You really must think we are gullible fools to ever believe that you are a licensed medical doctor.

    • Benjamin Ashraf

      I just like to point out that a common theme for those who oppose vaccines is about how pharmaceutical companies are only concern with profit with regards to vaccines. However here we see how those invested on the other side of the fence are trying to make a profit as well.

    • lilady R.N.

      Flagged for Spamming your own silly book.

      Tsk, Tsk, to think you would stoop that low to Spam comments here.

  • PithHelmut

    How can any studies be trusted these days with the chummy goings on between government agencies and big corporations? With so many children not getting vaccines, we don’t hear about them dying off do we. Have we stopped to think about what vaccines could do to our immune systems? They could very well hinder them. We need to exercise our bodies’ natural build up to immunity or an organism is likely to come along one day that gets you before a vaccine for it has been even thought of.

    • Todd W.

      Vaccines do “exercise our bodies” immune systems. They provide the opportunity for the immune system to identify and recognize a pathogen before the real deal invades and causes illness. Without that, when the actual virus or bacteria does infect you, it will establish a strong foothold before your immune system has even started to respond (and in some instances, the pathogens actively mess with your immune cells to buy time to reproduce).

    • Lawrence

      Well said. And don’t forget what we learned during the last Presidential Election, with Rick Perry passing a law requiring girls and boys to get the HPV vaccine, all the while receiving mega campaign money from the corporations for doing it.

      • fun bobby

        do you know how many cancers are caused by HPV?

        • ccdaddy

          Did you know, if the young boy or girl has HPV in their body already. The HPV Vaccine, will give them cancer.

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            Where is the evidence supporting this?

          • fun bobby

            1. it should be given before they become sexually active
            2. is there any evidence of what you are saying? even rick perry can understand this is a good idea. this is a disease that will infect 75% of women if they are not vaccinated causing many of them to develop cervical cancer and infertility. you probably have it if you are over a certain age and sexually active

        • Lawrence

          The point is , that pushing vaccines on people just because the corporation contributed millions to your failed presidential bid is NOT a reason to take it.

          It further illustrates the bad faith corporations have, and how desperate they are to vaccine EVERYONE whether they need it or not.

          • fun bobby

            if 75% of women are going to catch a disease that causes cancer and infertility then its not a bad idea to attempt to get people to take it. I guess nuns and priests who stick to their vow of chastity don’t need it but otherwise its a good idea.

      • ccdaddy

        They are saying, that the Blood supply may be tainted by those that have taken the HPV vaccine and given blood. Because the HPV virus is being found, months after the vaccine has been injected.

        I wonder, how they are going to dig their selves out of this one.

    • Benjamin Ashraf

      While natural immunity to a disease is better to achieve this one has to be exposed to first be exposed to the pathogen in question. One can not build antibodies for a disease simply by exercising or eating right, that is why we created vaccines. Now if you think the better option is to expose individuals to various diseases with the hope that they will recover, all I will say is that you are running the risk of hurting if not killing a lot of people.

      • ccdaddy

        Chicken pox, is and always has been very benign. It’s, more of a hindrance than a danger. Measles, are a little more dangerous.
        But, most cases they are resolved with a week or so of discomfort.

        The old package insert of single dose measles, says to not give within 3 weeks to a month of another live virus. That was a good warning, it was given to make sure that the host (the child) was not overwhelmed by one of the viruses setting up residence in the body.It did! that’s the vaccine strain measles, that is being found in our children’s Gut!

        Here is one question, I hope you will answer. If,the measles on the out side of the body are very painful causing inflammation. What, is the result of an internal case of Measles inflammation in a child’s Gut!

        Wake forest University found out of 82 children with Autism, 70 were found to be proof positive for the vaccine strain measles in their Guts! The lead researcher said, “not one! was of the wild strain”

        • Benjamin Ashraf

          The point is why do you want to put children through suffering, why do you want to waste resources on something that can be easily prevented with a vaccine.

          And if you are referring to the study by Stephen Walker I have few interesting point to address.

          1) This study was not published, should say something write there.

          2) The Walker study was dismissed as evidence in the 2009 Omnibus Autism Proceedings in the USA after a detailed critique by expert witnesses

          3) In a subsequent statement issued by Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center in North Carolina, Walker denied that he had shown any link between measles virus and autism.


    • fun bobby

      unless you die from a known disease with an available vaccine before you get that chance

  • Todd W.

    Wow, there is a lot of misinformation in the comments here. A lot of it has been addressed years ago. For example, here is a site that shows where many claims about vaccines are wrong, with links to research: antiantivax.flurf.net

    It might do people well to take a read and think a bit more critically about things.

  • Lawrence

    So, the article quotes this “EXPERT” Dr. who seems so frustrated when people read, and become better informed and make our own choices.

    How easy it would be for him and the medical community to have uneducated, ill-informed patients to blindly follow their advice, which is not always in the best interest of the patient. ( As we know from our Governor who passed a law requiring Drs to list how much money they receive from drug companies, because it is such a problem.)

    He arrogantly states we can’t make good choices for ourselves if we are informed. He states:

    Ironically, the more educated you are the more you are brought up in a
    culture where you are emboldened to question authority and know how to
    read up on things and to make choices for yourself, the more likely you
    are to make the wrong choice in this case,” he said.

    • Todd W.

      Actually, he does have a point. The more educated you are, the more likely you are to believe that you cannot be fooled. Enter slick, well-designed misinformation sites pushing an anti-vaccine ideology. Combine that with motivated reasoning, and voila! You have people who think they did adequate research and think they are being smart, but who nonetheless make poor decisions.

      The problem is that most people don’t know how to read a research article or don’t understand some of the scientific jargon. They don’t know how to properly identify flaws in bad research, and may see nonexistent flaws in good research that just happens to disagree with their beliefs. And the higher your degree of education, the more accomplished you are, the easier it is to trick yourself into thinking that you are right.

      • Lawrence

        Misinformation sites, exist pushing FOR as well as AGAINST vaccines as well

    • lilady R.N.

      That’s ridiculous. Here, just few of the many vaccine safety studies, published in first tier, peer-reviewed medical and science journals, that disprove any link between vaccines, the ingredients in vaccines, the timing and spacing of vaccines…and the onset of autism or any other developmental disability or disorder:


      (hint) You’ll never see these studies on Age of Autism, the NVIC and other anti-vaccine, anti-science website.

  • Lawrence

    Oh, wonderful. Now, in this Land of the Free, you want big government to force us to have medical injections.

    • kd

      Every state in the Union has long had a public health agency each of which stands on firm constitutional ground to ensure the health of the citizenry. You will find quite early in the text of the Declaration of Independence that we have certain inalienable rights, the first of which is “Life” it comes right before liberty. Later it further asserts that government shall operate to effect the “Safety, Happiness, and Prudence” or its citizens. These public health agencies and regulations help to ensure “Life” and “Safety” in order to let folks enjoy any measure of Liberty and Happiness.

  • Todd W.


    Putting aside the fact that nothing in the world is ever 100%, what of those who are unable to be vaccinated because of some other condition: on immunosuppressants due to an organ transplant, on chemotherapy for cancer, suffer from an immune disorder like AIDS, are too young to be vaccinated, are too old an unable to muster an adequate immune response,etc. The choice not to vaccinate affects all of those people, as well, and not all of them (e.g., the immunosuppressed) are easily identified just by looking at them. Couple that with the fact that most diseases are transmissible before you even know you’re sick, and you can see how it is a much more complex situation than you seem to suggest.

  • fun bobby

    my point exaclty

  • J__o__h__n

    Who needs vaccines? My tinfoil hat offers enough protection.

    • ccdaddy

      In California, they found that 87% that got the whooping cough. Were fully vaccinated, 11% were partially vaccinated and 8 % were non vaccinated.

      If you can read and comprehend, those findings appear to be suggesting that the more vaccinated one was for whooping cough. That the more likely, you were to get the very disease you were vaccinated against.

      That’s the epitome, of fools gold. Or if you like, the perfect example of what the parents of Autistic children are being accused of. Being Duped, by junk science.

      • Benjamin Ashraf

        There are a few issues with your clam, the fact is that more people are getting the vaccine and that is why the numbers you are reporting are truly representative of what is going on.

        Take a pool of 1000 people, and suppose that 95% are properly vaccinated (the current DTAP vaccination rate in the US is around 95%). That gives you 950 vaccinated people and 50 unvaccinated people who are unvaccinated.

        In the vaccinated pool, let’s assume that the vaccine was fully effective on 90% of them (that’s the highest estimate of effectiveness, which will result in the lowest number of succeptible vaccinated – aka the best possible scenario for the anti-vaxers). That gives us 95 vaccinated people who are succeptible to the whooping cough.

        There’s the root of the problem. Using numbers that are ridiculously friendly to the anti-vaxers, we’ve still got a population of twice as many succeptible vaccinated people as unvaccinated. so we’d expect, right out of the box, that better than 2/3rds of the cases of whooping cough would be among the vaccinated people.

        As well there is another issue that you are not considering, is that the pertussis vaccine needs boosters every few years to maintain protection so assume that people do not get the booster shot then they become susceptible to the diseases and when they become infected then increases the number of people who were fully vaccinated and are not sick.

        For anyone who is reading the above comments what you should take from this is that you need a booster shot to maintain protection against whooping cough.

        • ccdaddy

          Sorry, but your wrong! Using just the fact that 87 % were fully vaccinated (THAT GOT THE WHOOPING COUGH)11 % were
          partially vaccinated that got the whooping cough. Denotes that, the people that got the boosters were the ones that were fully vaccinated. That’s the bulk of those vaccinated, In other words the 87 % that got the whooping cough were the ones that had the boosters. Hence the words, used by calif. (FULLY VACCINATED. On the other hand, it appears that if you did not get the boosters you were less likely to get the disease than those who again fully vaccinated. The 87 %

          Do you have a comprehension problem? Are you math challenged? like the CDC said that those in the FDA were.

          CDC email FOIA received, “this was not rocket, it was ninth grade math”

          Here’s a few more, for your amusement.

          CDC email “how could the FDA approve a preservative, without knowing how much mercury it contained”????
          “what else is lurking, we know nothing about”

          FDA email “were afraid the public, will perceive us asleep at the switch for decades. ” for allowing this dangerous compound to remain in the vaccines”

          FDA email “and it’s no longer going to wash, that there’s no evidence of a risk”

          CDC FDA not sure? “maybe we should treat this like the Tylenol poisonings”

          “admit it happened”

          “pull it from the shelves (meaning, the mercury based preservative used in children’s vaccines the Thimerosal)”

          “and then, show contrition”

          They didn’t, they decided to lie to we the people that BTW they took an oath to protect. Someone just recently said that for them (meaning the FDA CDC AAP) to admit to this.
          Would be like, kicking over a hornets nest the size of the milky way. Considering the lifetime care cost being in the hundreds of Billions a year. And the embarrassment to the CDC and AAP that in it’s self could easily end the vaccine program as we know it. That comparison, is putting it lightly.

          These people, that we trusted to do the right thing. They the FDA removed (the mercury) from all the pet vaccines in 1990 because it was causing neurological damage in dogs.

          The same people, allowed it to remain in the children’s vaccines till 2002 with an expiration date 2004.

          Hence the words, from the FOIA email “were afraid the public will perceive us asleep at the switch for decades,
          for allowing this dangerous compound to remain in the vaccines”

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            First off sir I did not attack you personally so please show me the same consideration unless you prefer to act like a child.
            Second if you have a scientific source that says fully vaccinated means that you had the recommended shots plus a booster shot please post it here on the blog because I would enjoy reading it.
            Finally where are you getting these emails from, again please post a source so others can see them as well, but mercury has been removed from most vaccinations and is not given in any shot to a child under 6.

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            Again please post the sources for these claims sir?

          • ccdaddy

            The emails were read at the congressional hearings on vaccines as a cause for Autism. They, were all obtained
            by the freedom of information act. From, the CDC and
            the FDA.

            Have you not ever heard, about these emails???

            In fact the one ” and it’s no longer going to wash, that there’s no evidence of a risk ” was used by the Indiana Congressman Dan Burton. He asked, Dr. Egan of CBER just what does the statement “and it’s no longer going to wash, that there’s no evidence of a risk mean”? Dr. Egans reply, was it could mean just about anything. I suggest, that before you try to defend stupidity (injecting Mercury into children) that’s gone to seed. You might need to bone up a little, before making your statements.

            Those, CDC FDA FOIA emails are well known. Have been for years. Maybe, if you knew what those responsible for vaccine safety have done. You might just change sides, to
            one that thinks it’s stupid to inject children with ingredients you cannot legally cannot flush into the sewer system.

            That is, without committing a federal crime.

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            I was actually hoping you would post the source about your claim about the pertussis argument, and again mercury is no longer in vaccines except for the flu shot and there is an alternative shot for that.

            Also please post a link to these emails if there is one.

          • ccdaddy

            As reported by the Burlington Free Press, at least 522 cases of whooping cough were confirmed by Vermont authorities last month, which was about 10 times the normal amount from previous years. Since that time, nearly 100 more cases have been confirmed, bringing the official total as of January 15, 2013, to 612 cases. The majority of those affected, according to Vermont state epidemiologist Patsy Kelso, are in the 10-14-year-old age group, and 90 percent of those confirmed have already been vaccinated one or more times for pertussis.

            Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038797_whooping_cough_vaccination_outbreak.html##ixzz2hIlydfH7

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            Again if you read the NEJM article there was a few interesting points the authors make.

            “The fact that the outbreak did not spread to surrounding communities highlights the effectiveness of the two-dose MMR vaccine schedule in most settings. Previous studies have shown that two doses of mumps vaccine have an effectiveness of approximately 88% (range, 79 to 95) in preventing clinical mumps,8,31,37 and this schedule has been successful in controlling mumps in the general U.S. population;”

            - As well they attribute the outbreak to a probable extensive exposure to the pathogen in the population studied. As well the authors acknowledge that a limitation was that vaccine histories were often incomplete in the population.

            - I believe the fact that the outbreak did not spread to the surrounding community shows that the vaccine is effective.

          • ccdaddy

            Vast majority of those affected by all recent whooping cough outbreaks were already vaccinated
            A study recently published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) tells a similar story, showing that among the various whooping cough outbreaks that have occurred across the country throughout the past few years, as many as 80 percent of those affected had already received multiple Tdap vaccinations, some up to six doses. What this implies, of course, is that not only is the Tdap vaccine medically useless, but it may also be the driving force behind the outbreaks themselves.

            Besides potentially helping to spread the disease itself, the whooping cough vaccine is also implicated in causing serious side effects such as encephalitis, convulsions, and brain inflammation, according to an extensive report compiled by Heidi Stevenson over at Gaia Health. Dating back as far as 1933, the whooping cough vaccine has even been tied to causing sudden infant death syndrome, also known as crib or cot death, a condition in which a child suddenly dies for no apparent reason.

            In a similar display of vaccine uselessness, another recent study, also published in NEJM, found that 97 percent of children affected by a 2009 mumps outbreak in New York had already been vaccinated for the condition. Embarrassingly, roughly 90 percent of those who contracted mumps in this particular outbreak had also received a mumps booster shot, further highlighting the fraud of this particular vaccine.

            Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038797_whooping_cough_vaccination_outbreak.html##ixzz2hIn5rb6P

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            Well I am not sure if you read the article from the NEJM or the USA today article, but all it is saying is that protection from vaccinating is waining from time. This goes back to my original statement that individuals need to have booster shots. Look at this statement from the USA today article

            “About 90 percent of Vermont children have been vaccinated, Kelso said, but the immunization rate for adults is much lower, probably in the neighborhood of 10 percent. And adults are believed to be primarily responsible for spreading the disease, largely via coughing and sneezing.”

            - So by this statement the population that is vaccinated at a lower rate is more likely to be spreading the disease”

            And this quote from the NEJM “The incidence of pertussis was highest among the population of children who were 8 to 11 years of age and who had received the full five-dose series of DTaP in childhood, suggesting that the waning efficacy of the fifth dose among school-age children played a key role in both allowing and sustaining the recent pertussis outbreak.”

            - This reflects that the vaccine is losing effectiveness which is causing the increase in cases. Again this reflects the need that individuals need a booster to prevent acquiring the diseases. The reason you are seeing more cases in vaccinated populations is because the population of vaccinated individuals is higher then those who are not vaccinated so it makes sense that the percentage of cases is going to be higher in that group. However we saw in the USA today article that parents who were not vaccinated were more likely to spread the disease.

            - There is no doubt a new pertussis vaccine needs to be created but until that time, to prevent the disease individuals need a booster shot.

  • Vax_Choice_Human_Right

    On June 28, 2011 intelligent and caring parents testified in support of #MA H.1055, which would add a conscientious exemption for parents. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m_1X_iLVGA

  • lilady R.N.

    Parents should stay away from those anti-vaccine anti-science blogs which promote their hateful agenda of dissuading parents away from vaccines.

    The librarian in this article only “thinks” she knows more about vaccines than physicians who have worked all their lives caring for children who are desperately ill from these vaccine-preventable diseases.

    For reliable information about vaccines and the serious, sometimes deadly, childhood illnesses they prevent, rely on your pediatrician, the CDC and the CHOP

    (Childrens Hospital of Plhiladelphia)-Vaccine Information Center.


    • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

      Parents should stay away from nurses like lilady who think they are the all knowing, all being, authorities on life and health and what we should do with ourselves. Please let us all bow down to Lilady the R.N. Who is the all knowing goddess who will save us from ourselves.

      Please everyone go get your damn injections and take it like a good obedient slave!!!!

      • Benjamin Ashraf

        Sir no one is attacking you personally so please afford us the same respect. If you have any evidence please post it here on the discussion board instead of simply resorting to attacks on people.

        • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

          It’s a free country. So you are deciding now what and how people should speak and discuss topics?

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            No I am not deciding anything all I am asking is that you please act like an adult and respect individuals who may have different opinions from yourself. If you have evidence please post instead of attacking people.

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            It doesn’t matter, because any evidence anyone posts here will be poopooed upon by you all. And I am not your research assistant. I have my proof.

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            You don’t have to like my personality or tone or what I choose to say. It is still my right to say so.

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            Just as you all like to lump everyone into one boat. To claim that everyone who disagrees with you all is antiscience (as stated by lilady nurse) or antivaccine….no we are PRO HEALTH and PRO INFORMED CONSENT and the right to CHOOSE. NO one should have the right to force their vaccines on any of us. It doesn’t matter what evidence or proof you have. We all have a right to choose and believe otherwise.

            We can go on and on about all the faiths and religions in the world too as to what is true and what is not. One side will have their own irrefutable evidence of their own to prove their view. They will both have faith, as well as scientific evidence on their side and yet both will still not come together.

    • ccdaddy

      Yeah! they should only go to those Blogs set up with Pharma and CDC money to get the whole truth. No reason, for them to lie.

  • lilady R.N.

    Of course there are safety studies to disprove all the nonsense you posted.

    These are just a few of the safety studies listed recently in the American Academy of Pediatric journal “Pediatrics”. The studies were published in first-tier peer-reviewed journals and disprove the link between vaccines and the onset of autism or any other disability or disorder.

    You ought to read some of these studies before you post here again:


  • Benjamin Ashraf

    I agree with Dr. Snyder’s viewpoint on the plethora of misinformation that exists out there on the internet. It appears that individuals are more likely to pay attention to individuals on websites making claims about vaccines with no credible evidence over those in the medical or scientific field who have studied this topic extensively. And what is the end result of this judgement call, well as we have seen this year a disease like measles has been appearing all over the country from Boston to Texas.
    While some may say that measles is not so bad to have because the death rate is not to high and most people recover, and while they may be true what they are not considering is the suffering the such a disease can cause for a child or an adult. Are some of us so willing to buy into these fantastic tales of conspiracies or cover-ups that we are willing to let individuals suffer?
    Yet some may also be asking about the reactions that may occur because of vaccines. Yes vaccines, like everything else in life, are not 100% perfect but research has shown that the odds of a severe reaction is so low that you have more of a risk of contracting the disease in some cases.
    Now I am sure that I am going to get a bunch of comments ranging from how wrong I am, or how I am in league with the great conspiracy behind vaccines. That is fine I guess but for anyone who might be reading this and may be considering to forgo vaccinating themselves or a child for a particular disease because of something you read on a website all I would ask is to please talk to your doctor about your concerns before making your final decision. At the very least that can give you both sides of the argument and then you can make an informed decision.

    • lilady R.N.

      Well stated and accurate. Thank you Benjamin Ashraf.

      • Benjamin Ashraf

        Thank You lilady R.N. for the comment, and also your other posts in this discussion. I just hope those on the fence about this issue will talk to their providers.

        • ccdaddy

          Why, they will just parrot the AAP lies that this was a friendlier gentle kind of mercury. And by the way, don’t forget to tell them the biggest lies of all;

          “Thimerosal, does not cross the BBB”
          “this, was an insignificant amount of mercury”

          An NIH study by Dr. Burbacher on baby primates,had revealed that this injected form of mercury crosses the BBB easier than does the fish mercury.

          Dr. Maurice Hilleman he created the children’s vaccine program for Merck. His words obliterate,the CDC AAP line. The lines used, that say that the amount of Mercury used in children’s vaccines was minuscule.

          Dr Hillemans words were, “on the next vaccine schedule, the children will be getting 87 times what the EPA considers safe and I am concerned”

          He then said “this was not daily doses as such, this was
          bolus doses given all at once at one point in time, when viewed in this manner, it does appear rather large”

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            Again thimerosal has been removed from all routine vaccines given to children since 2001. The only vaccine that stills has thimerosal is the inactivated flu shot and for those of you who may be worried they have mercury free flu shots. Here is a website for more information.


            Again sir if you have any information published in a peer reviewed journal or sources from health agencies that proves your claims please post them here on this discussion board. It is one thing to make claims but please provide evidence.

        • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

          Yes please, talk to those “providers” because we can all see that since all these children who go into their “well visit” just fine and come out dead, paralyzed, and forever injured and are yet ignored and parents blamed and ignored and yet the rates of these profoundly sick children just keeps rising. Oh but it is just “better diagnosis” says these same providers who at the same time deny the child is even sick or injured by their “medicine”. So which is it? These children aren’t sick and the parents are faking it and making up lies and the kids really are just fine and they weren’t fine and then suddenly sick…but then it is “better diagnosis” or they were just born that way. But somehow the day after seeing these ‘professionals’ they just turned sick.

          Does that sum it up?

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            Sir if you do not trust your provider that is your choice, however the majority of providers do care for their patients and choose to do what is best for them. What you are saying is insulting to several individuals who work their whole lives trying to improve the lives of those around them.

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            INSULTING?!?! You are kidding me! This is TRUTH! This is what happens to millions of children EVERY FRIGGIN DAY!!!!!!!!

            I see these families. I hear their stories! They go in with a HEALTHY Child, To come back with a dead or severely sick child. And to be blamed for shaken baby, it’s all in your heads, those seizures are not really happening, your child just has a stomach ache, your child is not really autistic, We can’t do anything for you. your child was just born this way.

            They are ignored, they are lied to, they are treated like DIRT. Don’t tell me about some little ol comment, hurting your feelings. These people had their entire lives turned upside down and their child now lives in debilitating pain and torture inside their minds and bodies.

            Don’t tell me about feeling insulted!

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            These people TRUSTED their PROVIDERS. And they were LIED TO, and then TRAMPLED UPON!

          • ccdaddy

            Our Ped. wrote all the concerns we expressed to him,
            and then when we filed for the NVICP compensation and needed those records of regression. We ordered them from the Ped. and to our shock. He had his staff, or someone alter them with white pieces off paper over the hand written concerns. You actually could see, the four corners of the paper used to cover up our concerns bleeding through. We showed that, to the special master and the HHS attorney. Their words were, that they seen that ” but that is your burden of proof, not ours”

            Where is the compassionate system, that Congress had intended? And, had created to shield vaccine makers from Billion dollar law suites? You will find them, rolling in the money that was supposed to be used for these kids life long care cost.

            Instead the special masters, that BTW are already rich!
            They,have changed the rules to reflect if they do a few cases and agree to be on call if they need them.

            They can semi retire, and be paid for life. In layman’s terms, they have looted their own agency. While the parents of these kids, get nothing! to take care their severely vaccine damaged child. They take an early retirement, after just a few Yr’s of being a special master.

            Hell, will be full!

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            If your provider did not I am sorry, but his actions do not reflect those of other providers, so it is wrong to place them all in a group.

    • ccdaddy

      You want them to talk to their doctors, their doctors haven’t a clue. They don’t even know the ingredients, or the amount of toxins and heavy metals that are truly in the vaccines. They are oblivious, to the fact that there is a synergistic effect when one combines the ingredients in vaccines.

      For example, the Ped or Dr. does not know any of what the Manufacturer says about their own product. It’s called the MSDS sheet. They would be surprised, to find a warning in re activity data on the sheet to not ever mix Thimerosal with Aluminum. It causes, the toxicity rate to climb by 10 -100 times it’s original toxicity. Guess what these Geniuses did? Yep, it’s in there Aluminum as a catalyst.

      The good Dr. or Ped. also does not know that, if you give Tylenol to bring down the vaccine related fever. Tylenol causes a drop, of the Glutathione
      the body uses to excrete the heavy metals in vaccines. That drop is 80%
      in 24 hours. That means, if you are already low on the Glutathione as many children are. You could have ZERO ability, for the body to excrete the Thimerosals Mercury.

      Also on the MSDS, is a very clear warning “if you are exposed to thimerosal any future exposures may cause Mercury poisoning”

      I hope you got that, the manufacturer just shared that those in vaccine safety. BY not heeding a very clear warning, have set the stage for the perfect storm. For the neurological damage, we are seeing everywhere
      in our children. They also gave you the reason some children appear to be born with Autism. The mother gets, two flu shots containing the same Thimerosal. Some women have RH negative blood and they get those plus 2 more called Rhogam. That’s how children, can be born with Autism and Thimerosal bee the cause.

      Here is the worse example of incompetence, involving not heeding very clear warnings in the MSDS. You see, the pregnant women are getting that but load of Mercury. Before the baby, is ever given that first dose of the injected mercury. Here’s why that is not such a very good idea, it’s on the MSDS that “pregnant women should never be exposed to thimerosal, for it can cross the placenta and go into the baby (via breast feeding) and cause mild to severe mental retardation.

      You could not get dumber, or more dangerous than those responsible for vaccine safety. They truly, are in a class of there own.

      I am going to make this all make sense now, by nailing down the last nail in this coffin so to speak.

      The studies they went to Simpsonwood to discuss were by Dr. Verstreaten that was evaluating the possibility the children were mass poisoned.

      His findings were “if a child receives 62.5 micro grams, by age 3 mos that child has a 2.48 times risk of receiving ADD ADHD Speech Delay or the very big elephant in the room Autism.

      Now, we are going to do some elementary math skills. Math skills that the CDC said that the FDA did not have.

      Each flu vaccine, contains 25 micro grams ea. that is a total of 50 micro grams for just the flu shots. That’s being given foolishly to pregnant women. Add another 2 Rhogams to the flu shots at 25 micro grams ea. and you get a total of 100 micro-grams before the baby has even taken
      his first breath of God given life.

      So what would that, bring the risk up to then? Before you answer that, let me share this with you. At that meeting, they were saying you would not ever want to go any earlier with the Mercury based preservative for if you did you would most certainly get more outcomes. Meaning Autism! ADD ADHD and Speech Delay. That is another warning, that was crystal clear that they chose to ignore.

      If Dr.Verstreaten, were to have included real life exposures via pregnant women. And the dangerous CDC AAP condoned practice of giving up to 9 vaccines at once at one point in time with 7 that may contain the mercury.

      He originally said, he was literally stunned by his findings. What would adding up real life exposures, caused him to say? Oh! my God we have poisoned and entire generation of American children.

      That’s what Congressman Dan Burtons words were, at a hearing where he
      told Dr Egan of the centers for biologic s (CBER) after his testimony his own grandson received 9 vaccines in one day 7 of which contained the mercury. He said, and in two days his grandson was Autistic!

      His words were , ” DR Egan, on your watch we lost a generation of kids”

      • Benjamin Ashraf

        Again thimerosal has never been linked in a study to be harmful to individuals or cause autism. Please see the following paper,
        Ball et al. 2001
        If there is scientific papers to prove your claim post them here, and not anecdotal evidence.
        As well for individuals who may be reading this post there are thimerosal has been removed from all vaccines except the flu shot. As well there are several version that are free of the preservative so you can still get the vaccine if you wish.

        • ccdaddy

          Answer the question, what level is the suffering if the Measles is in the Guts of the child!!! Not! on the skin.

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            Suffering in any form is not acceptable, however the rate of this happening is not as high as you think. I found an article where individuals with Crohn’s disease were tested for the measles virus existing in the gut and their was no association found. No I am not saying that in rare occurrence’s this may occur but it is not in the majority of the cases. However the risk of having complications from the disease if far greater.


  • Lawrence McNamara

    There are a great set of studies that have been compiled by the AAP regarding Vaccine Safety – they address a broad spectrum of concerns & should be considered when making any really informed choice regarding vaccines:


    • Benjamin Ashraf

      This is a great resource thank you for posting Lawrence.

    • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

      What about the ingredient lists on the CDC and FDA sites? How does that comfort a concerned mom? And why is it a social plague for a mom to be concerned?

      Why are so many doctors turning into bullies when it appears so many haven’t studied that much on the issue. My honest doctor friends say in med school it wasn’t much beyond a chapter. But they are busy giving flu shots even though Cochrane Collaboration already shared it’s useless. My other doctor friends don’t vaccinate their children and say it’s useless to discuss the matter with their colleagues. So it leaves a mother distrusting studies she believes are bought and paid for by those who stand to make the most profit.

  • fun bobby

    if you are replying to my reply to someone else perhaps you should read the rest of the conversation. I am arguing the pro-vaccine side genius.

    • lilady R.N.

      Your posts are confusing….especially when you use a chart from an anti-vaccine blog.

      And, there is no need to use pejorative words (“genius”), when you post confusing posts.

      • fun bobby

        I was demonstrating you could use their charts to prove the effectiveness of vaccines. I should not have gotten snippy but I don’t need a lecture

  • Benjamin Ashraf

    All I would say about your claim, is to provide any scientific evidence that vaccines do not give immunity and all carry harm. Because last time I check a elementary health book says differently.

    • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

      Can YOU provide scientific evidence and PROOF that vaccines are SAFE?! In conjunction WITH EACH OTHER and to know that a child is NOT going to be susceptible to mitochondrial damage.

      • Benjamin Ashraf

        Well as far as safety of vaccines and the number of shots I will refer you to the following link which posts articles, this was mentioned in the discussion board.


        As far as the mitochondrial damage claim at the moment the CDC states that there is no scientific studies to either support or deny that vaccinations contribute to mitochondrial disease. So until further research is done one can not say for certain either way.


        Now I will ask you, what SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH do you have to prove that vaccines are not safe or that they cause mitochondrial disorders?

  • ccdaddy

    Funny how you leave out the fact that those in their forties, do not recall a generation of children with neurological damage as being seen today .That will cost this Nation, Hundreds of millions of dollars a yr. for life long care cost.

    You also leave out the fact, that the CDC has had to resort to tactics of hiring a researcher from Denmark that BTW defrauded them. To say, that putting a known neural-toxic IQ lowering compound in children’s vaccines. Was A-OK!

    Problem was, his research was based in fraudulent studies. In fact, he has been indicted on 13 counts of wire fraud and nine counts of money laundering.HERE, IN THE U.S. 22 counts in all, he has been being paid on other vaccine safety study’s even since the Atlanta GA indictments of his allegedly stealing from the CDC. In case you did not get that, let me clarify what they did. It appears, that the CDC has been paying a researcher who allegedly had stolen almost 2 million dollars from them on vaccine studies that he was involved in. Even though, he has a warrant out for his arrest. Could that be to keep him out of the US?? on purpose so he does not sing, like a canary.

    Oh! I left out the best part,the part that appears to be kind of insane, the researcher Poul Thorsen bought himself a house next to the CDC whom he allegedly stole from??????? Or,committed fraud with?????

    He also, bought with the combating Autism research funds. 2 cars a Harley motorcycle, and wired himself almost 1 million dollars in cold hard cash. How can this not be Breaking News! In a nation, that boast of all it’s freedoms including Freedom Of The Press. It appears, that the U.S. press, is not allowed to speak ill of the Vaccines or their totally Insane very out of control vaccine schedule.

    Extra Extra, read all about it. The researcher, that gave the CDC proof that vaccines with Mercury in them was safe. Has been indicted, on 22 counts of fraud!

    • Benjamin Ashraf

      As far as the charges by Dr. Thorsen, that is for the courts to decide and I am not condoning it, however at the moment no one has found anything wrong with his actual research articles. While his character may be questionable, unless the research is proven wrong we have to accept it’s findings at face value. As well thimerosal has since been removed by the CDC in all vaccines for those under 6 years of age.
      As for the generation not seeing autism cases, it was not until the 1940′s that the US even began using the name autism, this does not mean that there was no cases just we did not call it autism. As well one will agree that since1940 the environment we live and the use of chemicals has increased dramatically as well. The focus on one thing vaccines, which has been proven to not cause autism shifts focus away from finding a true cure and also increases the risk of people contracting various diseases.

      • ccdaddy

        That’s amazing, you are willing to say chemicals inhaled or ingested. maybe a cause. But injected mercury, is safe and effective and never hurt anybody. Injected mercury by passes the bodies filtering organs.

        The balls, in your court.

        • Benjamin Ashraf

          Mercury has been completely removed from all routine childhood vaccines since 2001 except the inactivated flu shot. And there are mercury free versions of this vaccine as well.


          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            Oh yes because it is ONLY the mercury that was the problem.

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            I was simply replying the above comment since he was harping on mercury. If you have any scientific articles that show an association between vaccine ingredients and autism please post them here.

          • ccdaddy

            One of the package inserted, listed Autism and Anorexia as
            possible problems. That’s, about as close to admitting it
            as you can get.

          • townie1952

            just as likely put in as a side effect ,by lawyers, to avoid litigation.

          • ccdaddy

            No! absolutely not, have you not read the ingredients in vaccines? They are full of heavy metals and toxins, and
            when one considers the synergistic effect of these mixtures. You get the real reason,that the American children are so
            sick. Their immune systems are toast, because of the crap
            that’s called vaccines. Call it what it is, it’s injected poisons.

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            Again, where is the actual scientific studies that support your claim? If you make an argument you need to have evidence to support it.

          • ccdaddy

            You can read and comprehend, can’t you? Here you have the good Dr. saying that the science out there would bury them in a court of law. That’s why he was concerned!

            The problem is, that up to that point. They were holding their ground saying to the public that all the excepted science points to there is no causation. So up to that point, the people you would have us to believe. Must have been lying to the public, and all the DR’s and Ped’s about the science they had all along.

            What you don’t understand is, they do a word play game.
            The key words is (the excepted science)

            Dr.Brent page 229 Simpsonwood meeting minutes, If an allegation was made that a child’s neurobehavioral findings were caused by Thimerosal containing vaccines, you could readily find a junk scientist who would support the claim with “a reasonable degree of certainty”. But you will not find a scientist with any integrity who would say the reverse with the data that is available. And that is true. So we are in a bad position from the standpoint of defending any lawsuits if they were initiated and I am concerned.”

            Also concerning Poul Thorsen of Denmark, the CDC contacts him presents him with the 11 million dollar contract. And then proceeds to tell him, that they
            really only interested in what will exonerate the CDC
            and Vaccines. So you really want us, the parents
            with the destroyed vaccine damage children to believe that the CDC want’s the truth? Why are they still paying this man anything, if they have a warrant out for his arrest
            for allegedly stealing almost 2 million dollars? If he stole from them, why would they offer a job to him on the new DMS 5 as the head. They gave him the job, even knowing one year in advance. That he was being investigated, in Denmark for absconding with the Loot!

            One more question why did he buy a house right next to the CDC, if he stole from the CDC? It appears the CDC was involved in the scam, because he was wiring money back to the united states in a CDC credit union account.

            Who sat up the account? The indictment states, that he Poul was working with others known (CDC) and unknown those back in Denmark on this scam to defraud the US.
            said the grand jury.

            They have paid him on many of new studies, since his indictment????? That money, is to keep him out of the US.

            Still, you want parents to believe those who act and conduct business like criminals. You would have us
            to believe someone on the run conducted good studies.

            Fact is, that the announcement of Pouls indictment states that he wasn’t even doing some of the studies. He was just writing faked, ( Negative causation ) results, that the CDC had made known. That they, desired of him.

            Another fact is, that they cannot win these cases in a real court of law. That why the Supreme Court, took the option
            away from the parents to sue in a real court. And made a statement that should make every parent shudder in fear!!

            The ruling said “since vaccines are so unavoidably unsafe,they cannot allow the vaccine makers to be
            sued” That the U.S. Supreme Court, telling you that
            the U.S. vaccines are not now! and never were safe.

          • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

            I’m on your side. I was being sarcastic to the previous post. Like all of those who like to lay claim to the idea as if mercury is the only toxic substance in vaccines.

          • ccdaddy

            Your quoting, the same worthless pieces of subhuman filth.
            That penned these FOIA emails.

            CDC email FOIA received, “this was not rocket, it was ninth grade math”

            Here’s a few more, for your amusement.

            CDC email “how could the FDA approve a preservative, without knowing how much mercury it contained”????
            “what else is lurking, we know nothing about”

            Here’s the other worthless scumbags, that admitted their guilt.

            FDA email “were afraid the public, will perceive us asleep at the switch for decades. ” for allowing this dangerous compound to remain in the vaccines”

            I guess I would fell that way to,if I had removed it from pet vaccines 12 yr’s earlier. Because, it (the injected Mercury) was causing neurological damage in dogs.

            Removed from pets vaccines, in 1990 by the FDA. Allowed to remain in children’s vaccines, till 2002 with an expiration date of 2004. That kind of blatant, careless disregard for this once great nations children’s safety is a National disgrace.

            FDA email “and it’s no longer going to wash, that there’s no evidence of a risk” The science you say does not exist, he’s saying is mounting up with a body count.

            CDC FDA not sure? “maybe we should treat this like the Tylenol poisonings”

            “admit it happened”

            “pull it from the shelves (meaning, the mercury based preservative used in children’s vaccines the Thimerosal)”

            “and then, show contrition”

            They chose to lie,straight faced to the public.

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            Again what I said is that thimerosal is now removed from vaccines except for the flu shot. So a parent has nothing to worry about from the disease. All you have done from previous posts is constantly say it is the mercury the mercury in your other posts. But has there ever been a scientific study that shows mercury was the cause, NO. Studies have shown that no association with thimerosal and autism exists. But even though it was removed you are still advocating that children not get the shots and run the risks of contracting various diseases that will hurt and possibly kill them.

      • ccdaddy

        Leo Kanner in the 40′s, said that he had to search the whole US to find the 11 children. Kanner was brilliantly right in identifying autism — which, by the way, he described as “a behavior pattern not known to me or anyone else theretofore.

        So it appears, that the rate of this disorder was very slim in the 40′s. Not as the CDC FDA and the AAP says as always being constant (meaning no real increase) it appears that they were all wrong! Dr.Kanner had to search the whole US
        just to find 11.

        • Benjamin Ashraf

          However in 1911 a swiss psychiatrist Edward Bleuler was using the term to refer to individuals with schizophrenia who he described as “self-absorbed.” This should serve as an example that this disorder was around for a significant amount of time. As well what evidence do you have to show that vaccinations are the only cause for autism?

          • ccdaddy

            Dr.Kanner said, this was not! schizophrenia.

          • Benjamin Ashraf

            The fact that Bleuler was describing individuals with the same symptoms of autism in the early 1900′s shows that the disease was in fact present for some time. Do you have one study that directly relates the incidence of autism with vaccinations. No because no study exists and no one knows all of the factors that may influence the onset of the disease.
            By focusing all your attention on what aspect that has been shown over and over again to not be associated with the disease all you are do is taking resources away into finding the real cause(s) for the disease or more effective therapies.

      • lilady R.N.

        Just a bit of advice Benjamin Ashraf. Sometimes it really is best to not engage people who post using many sock puppets. They are invariably the ones whose children have been diagnosed with an ASD, and who seek, by grasping at straws, to blame their children’s ASD diagnoses on vaccines.

        • Benjamin Ashraf

          I know lilady, and I feel sorry for anyone who has a child with ASD. I simply try to post to help provide information to individuals who maybe unsure about vaccines. Thank You as always

          • ccdaddy


          • ccdaddy

            Leo Kanner in the 40′s, said that he had to search the whole US to find the 11 children. Kanner was brilliantly right in identifying autism — which, by the way, he described as “a behavior pattern not known to me or anyone else theretofore.

            So it appears, that the rate of this disorder was very slim in the 40′s. Not as the CDC FDA and the AAP says as always being constant (meaning no real increase) it appears that they were all wrong! Dr.Kanner had to search the whole US
            just to find 11.

        • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

          Umm…..no I think your generalities are really sorta misled and actually a tactic to shut down those who don’t agree with you? So let me state as far as myself there are no damaged kids here from shots …sadly a negligent doctor at Cleveland Clinic caused my daughter’s cancer to spread. But I don’t want doctors to be demeaned to the point they can’t share their opinionf…just as we should not demean those with damaged children we would prefer to lock in a closet as anecdotal or inconvenient truths.

          Why demean parents who seek answers and really desire to prevent harm?

      • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

        Sincerely since you seem more able to think than the average medical colleague….what is your opinion of Dr. Paul Offit? And don’t you think there is a debt of gratitude owed to the moms who screamed and loudly to get thimerosal out of those shots (still in the flu shot).

        • Benjamin Ashraf

          I am glad that new preservatives were found that could replace thimerosal in vaccines, this allows parents to rest at ease with vaccinations and continue to prevent bacteria to grow in the vaccines. Now I realize mercury is something we should limit exposure but again studies have not shown a link to autism and thimerosal and autism continues even though the chemical has stopped being used in vaccines over the last few years.
          I am not denying that vaccine reactions happen to a small percentage of the population. However vaccines continue to be only tool to prevent certain diseases and they have saved lives. And while I am all for continuing research to improve vaccinations I am totally against individuals who advocate a policy of abandoning vaccines which could potentially hurt or kill individuals.
          As for Dr. Offit, I do not know him personally so I am not going to comment on his personality. However I do agree that we need to base decisions about any health issues, including vaccine on scientific evidence.
          Also i want to thank you for being civil in your conversation towards while I know this is an emotional issue the only way to have open dialogue is to be civil to one another.

          • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

            Thank you to you too! It’s just such an important matter to try to prevent disease…and the problems with the anecdotal and the process of clinical trials (Ben Goldacre, MD has a bestseller that is simply gobsmacking about the information left on the floor and the downright lies from the pharmaceutical companies…so expecting any mother to put her most precious of all possessions out there with the thought that this could be the end of their playful world…and knowing we fight disease differently today with much progress…and knowing all the facts are not on the table…well please forgive her and be patient with her and offer her an olive branch….not scoffing. They already feel torn in two.

            When doctors will do as you just did and not play the mental write-off game and open discussion a mother will be more trusting. But most of all I hope science can provide the missing link here about what is it that makes some children predisposed to the tangible and intangible damage.

          • wzrd1

            Meeting, probably buying lunch for Doctor Offit is on my to-do list.
            He practices not that far from where I live, so eventually, I’d like to meet up with him and shake his hand.

          • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

            Omgoodness….you have rubbed shoulders with the King of Irony? Wow…is that on your resume? You are a lot of fun! Keep talking…honestly….I love banter.

          • lilady R.N.

            Still waiting for your links to your sources that you base your libelous statements on about Dr. Offit, Alice.

          • wzrd1

            It is a terrible shame that you display your illiteracy for all to see and marvel at.
            In your mythical world, guilt by association is a truism. So is guilt by profession, for a public health nurse is evil in your mean minded little world.

            Here is a reality check.
            I’m a retired SF medic. I’ve been in the middle of epidemics, most notable was a dual measles and polio epidemic that was killing off a village.
            We managed to halt the spread by immunizing the populace.
            It didn’t bring back the dead children, it didn’t restore paralyzed limbs, but it prevented more from suffering, dying or being paralyzed for life in primitive conditions.
            That mission and others like it were our absolute favorite missions, no violence, no harm unintentionally caused.
            Only helping people.

            Pity that you love banter, but respond with blather.
            Goodbye, I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with the unarmed.

          • lilady R.N.

            My husband and I attended Dr. Offit’s seminar at Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, this past June. We both met him and if you have the opportunity to meet him, say hello from lilady.

            (Tell him I’m the public health nurse who spoke at his seminar, to thank him for the extraordinary care he and his staff provide to sick children at the Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia).

            P.S. Dr. Offit is the Medical Director of the Infectious Diseases Division at CHOP.

        • wzrd1

          No, there is no debt of gratitude owed to hysterical screams against non-existent issues.

          Your incessant griping over mythical problems reminds me of the hysteria that held back the smallpox vaccine from society for over a century.
          Fortunately, idiots were ignored and smallpox is now extinct in the wild.

      • ccdaddy

        That’s, makes a lot of sense. Just because the man has no conscience, or moral compass. That doesn’t mean, his research is not good.

        Dr. Thorsen said, when they pulled the Thimerosal out of the vaccines the rates of Autism were still on the rise. There for Thimerosal, is not the cause.

        This is taken from an earlier post from another article some info might be duplicated.

        He Poul says, they pulled the Mercury out of Children’s vaccines in Denmark and the rates of Autism went up. There for, it could not be the Thimerosal causing the Autism.

        He did not count on, someone from Denmark sending an email to the CDC . Someone, that had no reason to lie! Unlike Poul. It was also received through the FOIA act

        This,is the original email.

        “Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 5:33 AM

        “Dear Poul, Kreesten and Diane Schendel

        “Attached I send you the short and long manuscript about Thimerosal and autism in Denmark. [sentences redacted]

        “I need to tell you that the figures in the manuscript do not include the latest data from 2001. I only have these figures as a paper version and they are at work [words redacted]. But the incidence and prevalence are still decreasing in 2001. [sentence redacted]

        “I look forward to hear from you again.

        “Best regards”

        It appears this person was perplexed, by the CDC and Pouls claims the rates of Autism were going up. When this email from Denmark to CDC, states clearly it was still decreasing as of 2001. Again, as the FOIA email plainly states. (Still decreasing, as of 2001)

        I showed you how, the FOIA email from a researcher proved he was lying about the increase. What I did not tell you till now was, that the Denmark researcher hand picked to come to a predetermined conclusion to save the CDC and the deemed to big to fail the vaccine program. He has been indicted, on 13 counts of wire fraud and 9 counts of money laundering. By the Atlanta GA. justice dept.

        There is a warrant, out for his arrest!

        The Indictment states, that he Poul bought with the money 2 cars a Harley Davidson motorcycle a house next to the CDC and wired him self almost one million dollars in cash.

        Why would someone, who allegedly stole almost 2 million dollars from the CDC. Buy a house, next to the CDC??

        Answer, after he had committed, the predetermined alleged fraudulent studies for the CDC. They were going to put him in the lead position, of the new DSM five.

        Where I can assure you, he would have taken off the roles of the ASD spectrum 50 % of the Autistic children. Making those children, ineligible for further services.But apparently,
        he got greedy and took almost two million dollars of research funds. (Combating Autism Act, funds)

        Do you still think, this mans research should be trusted???

        • Benjamin Ashraf

          Once again I am nor sure where you are getting your sources from but please post them here on the board. I found a research paper that showed that the rates of autism actually increased in Denmark after the removal of thimerosal in 1992. The link is below.
          As for Thorsen, once again I am not going to discuss what he may have done or not, however the research has not been proven wrong as of yet.
          Sir once again if you want to make claims advocating against vaccines please provide evidence so others can access. By saying you have an email from some person is not evidence.


          • wzrd1

            Did you know that the rate of Lupus diagnosis shot way up a little over 50 years ago?
            It must be some magical malady that is causing it, not the discovery of the anti-nuclear antibody test that made the diagnosis far easier to make.

          • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

            Magical? Does your avatar stand for Wizard? Ha! You are going to need a magic wand to correct the mess ups you defend.

    • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

      Or how about Dr. Julie Gerberding who approved vaccines while at the CDC then goes and works for the manufacturer and makes about ten times more in salary?

      • wzrd1

        I see! So, you’re against people moving to a higher paying job in their career?
        Such a communist attitude!

    • wzrd1

      Erm, “Funny how you leave out the fact that those in their forties, do not
      recall a generation of children with neurological damage as being seen
      today .”

      Funny, this 52 year old does.

      They were confined to mental institutions.
      But, to be cheap, erm, save money, we closed most of those institutions and moved to an unfunded community based care system that is a disgrace.
      Now, rather than having someone institutionalized and have their medications balanced to achieve some semblance of sanity, we let them wander the streets as homeless persons or have them shoot up schools, Navy Yards and movie theaters.

  • Vax_Choice_Human_Right

    These programs should be “opt-in” – not “opt-out.” With liability protection for doctors, public health and pharma, where is the accountability? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m_1X_iLVGA

    • lilady R.N.

      The school entry requirements have always been “opt out”. It is how we protect others who cannot, for various valid reasons, be vaccinated. It is how we don’t have widespread outbreaks of vaccine-preventable-diseases, similar to those widespread outbreaks in the U.K. and in Europe, where tens of thousands have been infected by measles, thousands have been hospitalized and many have serious lifelong sequelae and many have died from measles.

      After being declared free of measles for 16 years the WHO has recently declared the U.K. as a measles endemic country, because of their lax public health laws and regulations.

      • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

        In the UK papers they are blaming those who are highly educated and make more money than the average person. Now what does that really mean?

        If herd immunity is only needed at about the 65% level. What’s the problem? It’s beyond those who don’t immunize because that wouldn’t make up the empty slot of the 1/3.

        Could it be the shots aren’t as effective? Could it be you need to get more boosters? Are you certain your vision isn’t on the wrong set of people? Because if what you share is true, and we believe all you share something is wrong and it goes well beyond those who aren’t immunizing.

        • lilady R.N.

          “In the UK papers they are blaming those who are highly educated and make more money than the average person. Now what does that really mean? ”

          Suppose you tell us “what that means”. Highly educated people who are successful in fields that are not associated with science and who are unschooled in immunology, bacteriology, virology and epidemiology, are not the most qualified to understand those subjects. My daughter has an MS-Computer technology and my husband is an attorney and they know didly about vaccines and the serious, sometimes deadly, diseases that vaccines prevent.

          “If herd immunity is only needed at about the 65% level. What’s the problem? It’s beyond those who don’t immunize because that wouldn’t make up the empty slot of the 1/3.”

          Herd immunity at least at 90 % or higher is required to prevent major vaccine-preventable-disease outbreaks (Immunology 101, Epidemiology 101)

          “Could it be the shots aren’t as effective? Could it be you need to get more boosters? Are you certain your vision isn’t on the wrong set of people? Because if what you share is true, and we believe all you share something is wrong and it goes well beyond those who aren’t immunizing.”

          Certain shots (the two dose MMR vaccine and the hepatitis B vaccine for instance) confer lifelong immunity.

          Other vaccines protective against diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus require “booster” shots. Have you had your Tdap booster vaccine, so that you do not infect an infant with pertussis, too young to have received the primary series…or do not infect children and adults who have valid medical contraindications against receiving those particular vaccines?

          • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

            I was hoping you would ask:) I have lived in the UK (although it holds true here. I believe it’s on the AMA site too), so the explanation from the UK papers is that those who are more educated and earn more aren’t buying a lot of the bollocks being spouted on threads like this.

            Surely you don’t want to create a population that just listens to YOU and doesn’t question your sources? Shouldn’t doctors want patients who care about their children? Moms can’t just turn it off. How about more independent research (like a comparison of the unimmunized to immunized children that keeps getting refused by the NIH as a research grant)? How about at least saying, “I am sorry your child was hurt, but we truly do think the shots will help prevent disease.” Instead of the attitude most moms suffer from doctors, and it’s that attitude that they run from. Do you want subservient patients? It appears so.

            I had to attend the funeral of my two year old cousin that the MMR shot killed. Don’t you care that some children are predisposed to harm? They may be few but they exist. You can’t deny there is harm from the shots. It’s a given. But you will proclaim a “Greater Good” while trying to tell protective moms to bugger off.

            So your daughter has a degree (so does mine:)? Immunology 101? Are we supposed to be impressed?:) The internet is a game changer and so far all this “I’m smarter than the patients” tripe isn’t helping, now is it?. There is a book I have I want to quote some studies from. It’s from an Ivy League Immunologist. Vaccine Illusions. Just typing quickly here.

          • wzrd1

            ” How about more independent research (like a comparison of the
            unimmunized to immunized children that keeps getting refused by the NIH
            as a research grant)?”

            Been done, as repeated cohort studies. As the results don’t meet with the antivax preference, new requests keep pouring in.
            Erm, how many studies do we need to do to prove gravity works the way it does? How many times do we need to prove to the flat earth society that the earth is really round?

            Lilady happens to be a registered nurse, complete with a BS in nursing. That includes immunology 101, something you obviously have never taken.
            In short, you reject an educated response and prefer an illiterate response.
            Here, in the real world, science does not rely upon the opinion of one person, it relies on replicated studies.
            It most certainly does not rely upon one book written by a crackpot!
            If it did, we’d never have landed on the moon, as the rocket would’ve sunk in the cheese.

          • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

            Go ahead and call names, but can you name the study? We are just supposed to believe YOU? We can exxchange resumes but how does that help?

          • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

            Immunology 101? Are you sure? It appears you are wrong. Here is what an Immunologist says about herd immunity which really can’t be attained the way doctors promote it and is considered at 68% not the figure you quoted. This happens when doctors just trust pharmaceutical literature. We want people who can think and be skeptical of clinical trials. Because God knows there is plenty of cause. Even if we thought you were correct and did a haul on parents you are playing a blame game that facts won’t back up. So conversations like this are helpful.

            At the very least you and any doctor should educate a mother on side-effects to watch out for. Denying them is negligent.

            Quote from Vaccine Illusion: “The truth is that for most communicable viral diseases there is no herd immunity in the US. The herd immunity exists only when the proportion of individuals who are not susceptible to the virus is above 68%. Because live attenuated viral vaccines are given routinely only twice- by the age of two and five-and the protective effect of these vaccines expires in three to five years, only vaccinated children below the age of eight to ten are resistant to viral diseases. The rest, including adults, are susceptible, except those who had the disease itself. Children under the age of 10 do not comprise 68% of the whole population. Therefore, vaccinating all the children in the US or none at all would make absolutely no difference for attempting to “maintain” the non-existent herd immunity.

          • wzrd1

            Way to cherry pick!
            *Only* live, attenuated vaccines.
            No mention of other vaccines.
            No mention of how immunity does wane over years, at a different rate for each organism.

            I question your source’s credibility unless you have taken a single paragraph out of context in an effort to make whole, new cloth.

            Come talk to me when you’ve literally stood in the middle of a mixed measles and polio epidemic.
            I have, it wasn’t fun. Men, women and children died.
            But, we managed to halt it eventually.
            With vaccines.

          • lilady R.N.

            “The truth is that for most communicable viral diseases there is no herd immunity in the US. The herd immunity exists only when the proportion of individuals who are not susceptible to the virus is above 68%. Because live attenuated viral vaccines are given routinely only
            twice- by the age of two and five-and the protective effect of these vaccines expires in three to five years, only vaccinated children below the age of eight to ten are resistant to viral diseases.”

            Uh, uh. The protection from the 2-dose measles vaccine and the protection from the 2-dose rubella vaccine is lifelong.

            There have been a few outbreaks of mumps among children who have received the 2-dose series of MMR vaccine.


            “The rest, including adults, are susceptible, except those who had the disease itself. Children under the age of 10 do not comprise 68% of the whole population. Therefore, vaccinating all the children in the US or none at all would make absolutely no difference for attempting to “maintain”
            the non-existent herd immunity.”

            That’s a crock of misinformation. We provide the first of the 2-dose series MMR vaccine to each birth cohort during the second year of life and provide the second/final dose of MMR to that same birth cohort at age four. We strive for 90 % of children in each birth cohort to be fully immunized against MMR. Where is your “expert” coming up with the 68 % for herd immunity?

            (Second Grade Mathematics and Immunology 101)

  • disqus_lcgocZ8O6h

    “It is pointless to administer drugs intended
    to stimulate antibody production to babies who are too young to produce
    antibodies. Infants in their first year mostly depend on generalized,
    non-specific immunity, including (hopefully) immunoglobulins
    from breast milk, to protect their young bodies from infection. They do
    not produce antibodies of their own until about age one. Despite this
    basic fact, the medical establishment insists administering a total of
    19 shots, containing 24 vaccines, to infants on the 2, 4 and 6 month
    pediatric visits (Source: cdc.gov). Somehow, the basic facts of human
    physiology and development do not apply to vaccines.”

    Q. So the
    science seems fairly clear that for the first year of life, probably,
    that the immunization is not stimulating the kind of response we expect
    it to stimulate.

    A. True.

    Q. So what’s the rationale for continuing to do that if it’s not doing what it’s supposed to be [doing]?

    A. The vaccines are given at pediatric wellness visits, and the idea is
    that you are training the parent to bring their child in at all the
    pediatric wellness visits, and that it’s only the year visit that
    actually is truly important. But that for most parents you are not going
    to get them to bring their kid in if they don’t come in at two months,
    four months, and six months. And so it’s actually more of a training

    It’s interesting, I was on the phone with [?] county
    public health last week, with one of their vaccine nurses. She was like,
    ‘Oh, you’re talking about vaccines? Make sure you tell them they have
    to do that year shot because the first three [the 2, 4 and 6 month
    shots] don’t work.’ I was like, ‘Yeah, I know.’

    This is an impeccably-credentialed, pro-vaccine PhD immunologist….

    • lilady R.N.

      Which County health department nurse did you have a discussion with about vaccines….or do you just make up stuff?

      How about perusing the CDC Pink Book “Principles of Vaccination” chapter so that you have a basic understanding of the immune system and the reasons for the timing of vaccines to achieve maximum protection against vaccine-preventable-diseases?


    • wzrd1

      A baby who is unable to create antibodies has a particular name.
      A bubble baby, for that is where they end up living.

      Sorry, kid, your “fact” is a fallacy.
      You’ve obviously failed immunology 101.

  • Benjamin Ashraf

    Is there scientific research that is done on these issues, again if the studies exists please post them here.

  • ccdaddy

    Benjamin Ashraf said “While some may say that measles is not so bad to have because the death rate is not to high and most people recover, and while they may be true what they are not considering is the suffering the such a disease can cause for a child”

    Here is where you are missing it, if measles on the outside of the body make you suffer as you put it. What do you think it does, when it sets up residence in the lower bowel of the child????? Are you so clueless, have you not figure out what I told you about the old single dose package inserts. How the Manufacturer of the single dose viles Measles said to not give within 3 weeks to a month of another live virus. They had a reason!!!! it’s just like all the other warnings, they did not heed.

    Hey stupid, (CDC AAP FDA) the Manufacturer had a method to their madness.
    It, was this. A warning, to not overwhelm a child’s body with to many live viruses at once. They did it anyway, it’s called the MMR both Merck and GSK manufacturer it.

    They were afraid,that one might take hold and set up residence in the body.

    It did, Wake forest University found in Autistic children that out of 82 70 were found to be tested proof positive for vaccine strain measles in their now little diseased Guts.

    So do answer, what is the suffering on a scale of 1 – 10 if it not on the skin but in the child’s Gut and cerebral spinal?????????

    At times my son screams so loud from the paid I hear him as I am coming down the block. And he’s in the house, he latches onto the kitchen table with his teeth till the gums bleed! He throws kitchen chairs, and they are no longer usable.

    He bust through sheet rock, when he’s in pain. A whole wall section at a time.
    He’s broken every door in the house, twice. Replaced them with, solid wood doors 160.00 dollars a piece. He then, is only able to brake the jam to the door.
    That’s only 27.00 dollars ea. He has slammed both his fist down on the stove
    one time to many and it shattered. It can’t be fixed 1700.00 dollars for that it was the second stove he destroyed. Every glass in the house windows, have been smashed out by him when he is in pain! Replaced by 1/2 inch plexi glass a fixed safely over the windows with Velcro he can and has beat them. That, problem appears, to be solved for now. He has destroyed over the yr’s many beds, living room furniture. We now have none, he is still in diapers at 23 yr’s old. He would have violent bowel movements and that destroyed the couch and chair that and peeing on it . We did however, try to cover each cushion with plastic trash bags and then put the cover back on that took about 30 to 45 minutes a day. That is, till the covers were falling apart from being washed so many time a week. TV’s he broken three of them, I can say that he has destroyed more than I can recall. The screaming in pain, gets to you. You hear your son,whining as the pain comes on as a baby an then you hear him crashing into the walls.

    It doe’s play on your mind, you take him to the hospital and they say we don’t know how to treat him. The x rays show everything in place, we don’t know why he is suffering so much. But he is clearly suffering and in pain! they say. You see they cannot see the diseased vaccine strain measles infected lower bowel
    unless they use a pill cam. Until now, everybody refused to do it.

    They found inflammation in his lower bowel, so again what is the level of suffering if it ( the vaccine strain measles are in the Gut ) I only wish you could feel, the pain my son feels at times. It’s like, he’s being skinned alive or lit on fire.

    Maybe you might think twice, about defending people who know the children are suffering and refuse to do anything to stop it! So afraid their Golden Retirement Parachutes, will be worthless if the Co’s they invested in so heavily in were to have to pay for all this damage. That they done to American children.

    • Benjamin Ashraf

      Sir I am sorry for your son’s pain but advocating that the vaccine should not be administered is not the answer. I all ready addressed the Wake Forest study and how it was not published and the findings were questioned by different council. I am not saying that rare side effects happen but the odds of contracting a disease is far greater then these rare events.

      If these cases were as numerous as you suggest then there will be evidence in the literature to support your claim. I have asked time and time again to present studies and the only ones you have are from Natural Health.com which takes snippets of a real article and spins them in a way to spread their ideology, and I went back and explained the true article meanings earlier.

      You speak about the MMR overwhelming the immune system of a child, and here is the fact that this myth has been shown in research to not exist. In fact research has shown that the immunologic load has decreased in today’s vaccine schedule as compared to it was below. And combinations were found to actually produce immune responses similar to single shots alone.

      Please see the links below.

      1) Offit PA, Quarles J, Gerber MA, et al. Addressing parents’ concerns: do multiple vaccines overwhelm or weaken the infant’s immune system? Pediatrics2002;109:124-9

      2) King GE, Hadler SC. Simultaneous administration of childhood vaccines: an important public health policy that is safe and efficacious. Pediatr Infect Dis J1994;13:394-407

      Again I am sorry for your child’s illness but advocating to other parents to avoid vaccines is a dangerous policy. As an individual who had a reaction from his own MMR shot I understand that complications do exist. However I am also an advocate for vaccinations and I believe you are running an incredible risk of hurting individuals. I placed the odds of complications from contracting measles below for those who may be interested.

      1 in 25 cases result in pneumonia/bronchitis.

      1 in 200 cases result in fits.

      1 in 1000 cases lead to inflammation of the brain – 40% of those leading to permanent brain damage.

      1 in 8000 cases appear normal but lead to serious brain complications years later.

      • ccdaddy

        You have listed, Paul Offit that made 35 to 50 million dollars off of his patent on his & Merck’s Rota virus vaccine. He’s not exactly non bias.

        As far as the fake research paper you have listed, I will just say that it is impossible to add all of the ingredients of vaccines. All of the Heavy metals,and Toxins. And all of the other trash, that you cannot flush into the sewer legally. And do no harm.

        First, they have never!ever added all of the Mercury up that the children got in real life from the 90′s. NEVER.

        That would be very embarrassing, because from a toxicological stand point. If you added it all up, and kept track of the Bolus doses that were injected all at once at one point in time. In one little body.

        You have just poisoned a child many times over. Now add, aluminum to the mix. The Toxicity rate then climbs by 10 to 100 times it original Toxicity. That is what is known, as the synergy effect of the mixing of the two salts. Mercury & Aluminum

        Sidebar, a pilot told me that Mercury is not allowed on airliners ever! He said to me, it can eat right through the wall of the plane.

        On the MSDS of Thimerosal, the preservative that’s 50% mercury by weight. That BTW, was in almost all children’s vaccines.

        It states, under re-activity data in the sheet that Aluminum is never! supposed to be mixed with Thimerosal. It’s examples like this, that prove the AAP FDA and the CDC cannot defend a program that on a regular basis never heeds warnings. Even, when they are from the Manufacturer.

        There is Aluminum, in almost all children’s vaccines. They use it for a catalyst, to heighten the immune response.

        Not only have never added the up true amount of Mercury that our American children got, they ignored the warning to not ever!! mix it
        with Aluminum. They did, and the Toxicity sky rocked!

        • Benjamin Ashraf


          Again please cite your source for this information.

          - As well even though Dr. Offit did create a vaccine his research has never been found to be fraudulent by any source.

          - I am sure your pilot friend was not referring to thimerosal in your conversation but some other form of mercury.

          - The papers I referenced were not even talking about chemical but more the number of pathogens that are administered in the body.

          - Also as you know aluminum is found in other parts of an infants dies such as breast milk and formula.

          - Studies have also shown that the amount of aluminum a child is exposed to by both vaccines and diet was far below the burden of safety for children.


          • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

            One of the problems with Dr. Offit was the voting process. Some feel it was disingenuous (and some have sites documenting what very well could be lies….covering Congressional testimony with direct quotes…it’s one thing to earn an honest living but quite another when there are red flagged, red herrings flipping all over the floors of medicine and Congress:). Falsehoods under any guise are a huge problem in medicine. It’s something doctors need to care a bit more about (I know it’s denied, but try being a part of a peer review and literally gasp at what doctors know and then watch what they are willing to share about a colleague).

            But he is problematic on the front of personal liberties. Problematic in the sense that as we know we aren’t going to get herd immunity solely from vaccinating children (hence my question yesterday to the RN about where her vision is…..and about boosters, etc. That’s a huge problem when dogmaticness leads us to false conclusions because our vision is so narrow we don’t really understand that it’s narrowing in on a group of people to the point it shows the messenger hasn’t truly studied, nor chosen their research well…and, sadly, some have not truly researched much at all (and some of them are doctors who prefer hype over substance). But expect patients to listen to them, and even worse some want obedience…treating patients liked trained seals! And, at times, Dr. Offit fits the stereotype outlined. I think he would prefer censorship? A few of the youtube videos I watched of his were…well…for another day….. Asking about Dr. Offit is a good litmus test because it will reveal if the reader knows about him, if he will defend him, and how he feels about clinical trials, etc. Like a story starter it can lead to extremely good conversation about the topic at hand…if the information is in the right hands:)

            All this to say the vision needs broadened, a Wikileaks in not only clinical trials, but all of medicine (yes, the patients can handle it. We don’t need Svengali’s as doctors:)

          • lilady R.N.

            Just what have you heard about Dr. Offit and the development/approval of rotavirus vaccines?

            How about citing/linking to your sources about the voting processes at the ACIP, which approved the first rotavirus vaccine?

            Tell us again about herd immunity and the lack of herd immunity in the U.K. in older children and young adults because of Wakefield’s fraudulent research, which led to the 1,200 + cases, many hospitalizations and one death, this past summer centered in the Swansea area of Wales.

          • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

            You aren’t seriously going to pull out the Wakefield bit are you? You know what should concern you about Wakefield? That a panel of three docs in the UK took away two medical licenses for what? Have you read the parents of the children letters to the Editors defending him in the UK papers? You may find out you are reading a load of bollocks from sources that have an agenda, then proclaiming that those who want the truth are easily misled? You should know the one doctor got his license back, as he bloody well should have. I think you should study and get better material than Wakefield.

            And if you maintain he should have lost his license, then if you are consistent there are whole lot of doctors here and pharmaceutical researchers and bureaucrats who need removed from their current jobs.

            Wakefield is a lame duck. I think you need to widen your horizens and get over Wakefield because out of the people I know who didn’t immunize (and I was in the UK at the time of Wakefield and afterwards) I don’t know one single person who knew much about him or his tiny research (12 kids and you think he is responsible for outbreaks? Has common sense left the conversation?). And some didn’t know who he was at all. Only medicinal types who don’t scratch below the surface pull him out as a scapegoat.

          • lilady R.N.

            You still have not provided specifics about the libelous statements you made about Dr. Paul Offit and your sources about the ACIP voting process for the licensing of the first HPV vaccine.

            Do you have any sources?

            Are you ashamed to admit that your sources are unreliable?

            Have you read the GMC ruling that revoked Andrew Wakefield’s license?


            Do you know that he and he alone, received $ 750,000 USD from the U.K. lawyer to fix the case against the manufacturer of the MMR vaccine as the cause of his bogus diagnosis of “autistic enterocolitis”?

            Do you know that the GMC found Wakefield guilty of changing clinical records of the children in his study?

            Do you know that the parents of 11 of the 12 children in Wakefield’s study were referred to the U.K. lawyer by JABS, a notorious anti-vaccine, anti-science group?

            Why didn’t any of those parents, who now claim they support Wakefield’s fraudulent research, testify on his behalf during the GMC hearing?

            Still waiting for you to pony up your sources for your libelous statements about Dr. Paul Offit.

          • lilady R.N.


            “You still have not provided specifics about the libelous statements you made about Dr. Paul Offit and your sources about the ACIP voting process for the licensing of the first ^ rotavirus vaccine.”

          • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

            Look above:)

          • lilady R.N.

            Still waiting for your link to your sources for those libelous statements about Dr. Paul Offit, Alice.

          • https://www.facebook.com/arobert6 Alice Robertson

            Are you kidding me? Really? I am serious….do you realize even basic research skills look beyond the obvious, look with skepticism on something this important and you didn’t even do a quick Google check to see his direct quotes that he lied? How he voted for himself? How he was reprimanded by Congress? You think challenging me to send the obvious is going to do what? It just looks like you haven’t studied the issue. Something tells me you didn’t even know who Paul Offit was until I brought up his name, then you grabbed some convenient snippets because it’s pretty obvious you didn’t know about the parents of the Wakefield children going out publicly in the papers with complete support (and again you grabbed what you think is a convincing snippet and it’s obvious you didn’t use research skills to read both sides. I can give you the open letter signed by the parents that went public in the UK. But you think…ah ha…gotcha about the testimony. But since you won’t look it up with a eye for the truth I will share they weren’t allowed to testify) It’s so broadly available it’s shocking you asked. Did you see the open letter signed by the parents sharing their complete defense of Wakefield.

            What’s really odd is the eejets who believe clinical trials and want us to (I want to…but simply can’t). Here is what best selling author Ben Goldacre, MD shares in his new book about the atrocity of clinical trials (that you believe:). During an 18 year period the FDA tracked antidepressant trials showing 38 positive outcomes and 37 negative outcomes, but once published in literature only three negative trials showed up and 48 were portrayed as positive.

          • lilady R.N.

            Stick with the subject which is vaccines.

            You made the libelous statements about Dr. Paul Offit and it is up to you to link to your sources.

            We can only conclude, by your refusal to reveal your sources, that you are:

            a) Lying and have no sources

            b) Ashamed to link to your sources.

          • lilady R.N.

            The parents all had the opportunity to offer testimony in defense of Andrew Wakefield during the GMC hearing…and none of them testified.

            Can you say P..E..R..J..U..R..Y? because they would have been sworn in and subject to cross examination about the deliberate changing of their childrens’ medical records by Wakefield and with their complicity, by the GMC panel.

          • ccdaddy

            That’s not true, all moneys were to be donated. Given to the royal free hospital, children’s gastroenterology dept.

            One day, you will answer to the God that answers by fire.The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, About what you have said about a man, with more integrity in his pinky than all of Proffits
            whole body.

            It takes a real man to walk away from everything, to pursue what he has found to be true. To come to the US, to try to stop the suffering of children in their Guts world wide.

            Offit Makes 30 to 50 million dollars, off of the Rotovirus vaccine. Where is his donation, for Autism! research. He’s destroying children for a Profit, his Merck vaccine contains pig virus bits in it. It is a dangerous, vaccine.

            The CDC said, we do not know the long or the short term effects of the pig virus bits. Hey CDC, ever heard of erring on the side of caution. No! and that’s why 1 in 31 boys now have Autism.

          • lilady R.N.

            Has G-d been communicating with you again, ccdaddy?

            What are you blathering about? Wakefield took the money and ran. The Royal Free Hospital offered him the opportunity to replicate his study and he refused.

            What happened to all the bowel specimens from all the children in Wakefield’s study and the histopathology reports on those specimens? They all went mysteriously “missing”.

          • ccdaddy

            No, you appear to be mistaken. It was the CDC’s, go to guy
            from Denmark. That took the money and ran. And again, he has been indicted. And besides, there’s a warrant for his not Dr. Wakefields arrest.

            And you appear to be confusing, their Verstreaten studies earlier findings. That went as you put it missing,and then admitted they were accidentally destroyed. The earlier studies, had found it was legally above the Legal limit of 2.00 for causation. Verstreaten found, that there was a 2.48 times risk. if the child had received 62.5 micro-grams by age 3 mos. Here’s where you lose, That is not real life! some children get 7 vaccines containing the mercury. Here is where it gets real bazaar, those 7 vaccines can and are being given all at once in one little body. At one point in time! And that’s not even considering, any body burden of of Mercury (via flu shots x 2 and Rhogam x 2 ) the mom may have had. That is another 100 micro-grams, before the child has even drawn his fist breath.

            Here is a problem, that you cannot deny. Its from the MSDS, it states that “pregnant women are never supposed to be exposed to thimerosal ” Here is where you lose! “for it can cross the placenta and go into the baby,and cause mild to severe mental retardation” Isn’t that what the ASD stands for, mild to severe mental retardation.

            From one end of the spectrum, low functioning, to the other end high functioning. It’s flat criminal, that they are not having to consider a real life thimerosal exposure.

            That’s,getting away with poisoning the American children. By allowing them, to cheat! So, if 62.5 micro-grams by age 3 mos. is a 2.48 times risk. What is 162.5 with 100 going into the unborn baby. Now consider another, MSDS fact that “if you are exposed to thimerosal,any future exposures may cause one to be susceptible” Get this! to MERCURY POISONING!

            Are they saying that, those in vaccine safety set the stage for the perfect storm of neurological damage. That we call Autism! If that’s not enough, another fact from again our best source. Proving their lack of brain cells, concerning the health of our children. It’s in the MSDS,under re-activity

            data. Never mix Thimerosal with ALUMINUM.

            To make along story short,that warning was. That to do so, causes the toxicity rate to raise by 10 to 100 times the original toxicity.

            Now that we all know that, what would have been the outcome of Verstreatens studies if it reflected real life exposures? I assure you, it could easily be considered mass poisoning. So, what is your excuses going to be

            First, you cannot discount the Manufacturers own findings of the characteristics of their own product.

            Second,you cannot deny the fact. That the CDC has allowed, only a very limited evaluation of a IQ lowering neural toxin used on our children. That BTW found, a very
            bad finding. A finding, that had to be as they say Handled.

            Congressman, and DR. Dave Weldon of Florida. Said, that the earlier findings (they cannot no longer locate) that they found were above legal. Were whittled down, by their selective use of the data.

            In other words,they were cooking the books. To lower their findings, to below legal. Absolute,National disgrace.

            To the point, that was the reason Dr. Weldon left serving in the Congress.

            A UK Justice said,That, he found no where in the children’s files.That the children, was treated with substandard care.

            It’s time to stop!your beating an innocent man. Who’s only fault is, he put our vaccine injured children before his own livelihood. And, even put his own family on hold. He lost his own country. He was the head,over the Royal Free Gastro. Dept. What did he gain? He easily, could have said I made a honest mistake. Everyone, including GSK and all their board members. They, would have welcomed him back into the fold. As long as their precious MMR, was
            not being implicated as the dangerous vaccine that it is.

      • lilady R.N.

        PubMed is your friend ccdaddy…especially when it comes to your support of the disgraced and discredited former medical doctor Andrew Wakefield.

        Here a line listing from PubMed of 361 studies, published in first-tier, peer reviewed medical and science journals, that disprove Wakefield’s bogus “theory” of autistic enterocolitis and disprove the medical records of Wakefield’s study subjects, that he deliberately and fraudulently changed when he was colluding with the parents of his study subjects’ parents (referred from JABS to the bottom-feeding leading U.K. lawyer and thence to Wakefield). to “fix the case”, claiming MMR vaccine caused autism.


        How about getting some basic science education (organic chemistry and inorganic chemistry)? How about getting a J.O.B….
        because the Vaccine Court will not compensate your special needs child for his non-existent vaccine injury?

  • Kai Alexis Price

    Parents should have the right to know if there are unvaccinated children in their schools and neighborhoods.

    • ccdaddy

      Parents should have the right to know, what ingredients are in vaccines.
      And those parents, should pray to God almighty for wisdom and knowledge
      to be able to understand that Mercury does not belong anywhere near a child. Less a lone, injected into them.

      From the MSDS “thimerosal is accumulative in the body, it targets to organs of the body in-particular the brain and the lining around the brain”

      Also from the MSDS “pregnant women are never supposed to be exposed to thimerosal, for it can cross the placenta and go into the baby and cause mild to severe mental retardation”

      MSDS “thimerosal is a mutagenic” Meaning it can mutate your child’s genes!

      MSDS “never mix thimerosal, with Aluminum” Aluminum is in children’s vaccines as is thimerosal!

      MSDS “if you are exposed to thimerosal, any future exposures to mercury may cause mercury poisoning” The first dose, comes either before birth.
      (via flu vaccine in expectant mother) Or at birth, by the Hep-b vaccine that’s given just hours from the first breath of God given life.

      Kai Alexis Price if you can read and comprehend, why would you put this poison into any child or Adult?

      • Kai Alexis Price

        Vaccines ingredients are widely known and there is a big difference between ethylmercury and methylmercury, but not to ignorant neoluddites who are frightened of science itself. Similarly, small amounts of aluminum–which is commonplace in our environment–are added to some vaccines to make them safer and more effective. All of these ingredients are there intentionally, not by accident. Being able to Google to find rants from quacks trying to sell pseudo-science books does not make one a scientist.

        • ccdaddy

          I see you have a problem, on reading and comprehension.
          The Manufacturer’s MSDS alone is enough to declare it is not safe for anyone let a lone children. And I suggest, you look at Dr. Burbacher’s studies on baby primates. His ( NIH ) paid studies on thimerosal revealed that thimerosal’s ethylmercury crosses the BBB easier than does the fish (methyl-mercury)
          And after it enters the brain, it turns into inorganic mercury by 2.5 times that as does the fish mercury. Inorganic mercury, is the most damaging to the Mitochondria. It was found, that the Mitochondria problems in children are turning into Autistic like symptoms. The CDC was informed that the Mitochondria problems are not rare, at all. If fact, it maybe 1 in 50 that have the nuclear DNA for mitochondria problems. The CDC was told that the possibilities for Autism then are staggering. The current rates of Autism, is now at 1 in 50 children with 1 in 31 being boys.

          I suggest, that you also look at the fact that Merck’s own chief vaccine creator Dr. Hilleman tried to raise a red flag
          to the fact that the children were being over taxed by the

          Dr.Hilleman, created Merck’s children’s vaccine program.
          He said, on the next vaccine schedule that the children will be getting by age 6 months 87 times what the EPA says is safe. His words were this, about the amount. And it is not what you or the CDC, FDA, and AAP are saying.

          “this was not daily doses as such, this is Boluses doses that’s being given all at once at one point in time, when viewed in that manner it appears to be rather large”

          Take the fact, that the science that the manufacturer says
          in the MSDS that Thimerosal is a mutagenic and you might find the reason that the children are falling ill to Autism at higher rates every year. The susceptibility rate,appears to change ( meaning children affected ) with the mutations.

          At the Simpsonwood meeting they said the earlier you go with the thimerosal. The more outcomes, you are going to get. Because,mercury being given at 6 mos.is not the same as mercury at 4 mos. and it is most definitely is not prenatal mercury!

          I suggest that you do your own research before entering into a discussion you obviously know nothing about.

          Stop reading, from the skeptics script that your employer gave you. If anybody is putting anybody at risk, it’s people who will lie for money for Pharma or the CDC.

          In a 1948 AMA paid study on thimerosal, Dr. Frank Engley
          found thimerosal was toxic down to a level that was almost unbelievable. He said, it (the mercury based preservative) was toxic down to one one millionth of a gram.He said, and that’s is about as toxic as it gets. He warned everyone, to get it out of everything it was in. He also said, that it was safe for even over the counter topical use. His words about it’s antimicrobial ability was that it was very weak at best.

          When they had the flu vaccine shortage a while back, it’s because thimerosal could not even kill the (easiest to kill) microbe. Over half of the vaccine, had to be destroyed. There was a Senator,, or Congressman that was screaming He wanted to know”why couldn’t this not kill the easiest,to kill microbe!”

          Dr. Engley’s tried to get it out again in 1982, again the FDA would not listen and left it in the children’s vaccines.

          So now, you have the FDA dropping the ball twice by not heeding to the warnings of toxicity in 48 and again in 82.

          Dr Hilleman called the ball right, when he expressed that our the FDA would not do what was right. UnLike the UK, FDA. He was right, it was banned in the UK but not in the US.

          It is the incestuous relationship, that the FDA CDC and AAP has with the vaccine makers. Is why,that they will
          not do what was right. By banning it! The USSR banned
          it decades ago. Because it was highly TOXIC.

          Just before Dr. Engley died in the 90′s he said “if they had listened and followed through on our 82 report, then all the vaccines would have been freed from (thimerosal) and all this autism they tell me, would not have occurred”

          • lilady R.N.

            You keep dwelling on that Simpsonwood Conference and you have been advised by me and others that the Simpsonwood Conference transcripts are available in their entirety on the internet.

            Robert F. Kennedy wrote a scurrilous article about the scientists, researchers and doctors who attended the Simpsonwood Conference, which was published on the Salon blog…which was later retracted by Salon. The publisher wrote a scathing rebuke of Kennedy’s scurrilous article and apologized to Salon’s readership:


            Sunday, Jan 16, 2011 01:01 PM EDT

            Correcting our record

            We’ve removed an explosive 2005 report by
            Robert F. Kennedy Jr. about autism and vaccines. Here’s why

            By Kerry Lauerman

            “In 2005, Salon published online an exclusive story by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that offered an explosive premise: that the mercury-based thimerosal compound present in vaccines until 2001 was dangerous, and that he was “convinced that the link between thimerosal and the epidemic of childhood neurological disorders is real.”

            The piece was co-published with Rolling Stone magazine — they fact-checked it and published it in print; we posted it online. In the days after running “Deadly Immunity,” we amended the story with five corrections (which can still be found logged here) that went far in undermining Kennedy’s exposé. At the time, we felt that correcting the piece — and keeping it on the site, in the spirit of transparency — was the best way to operate. But subsequent critics, including most recently, Seth Mnookin in his book “The Panic Virus,”
            further eroded any faith we had in the story’s value. We’ve grown to believe the best reader service is to delete the piece entirely.”

            Please stop posting about the Simpsonwood Conference…I’m growing weary from correcting you and your many sock puppets, when you post those falsehoods.

  • ccdaddy

    When did America, decide to sell it’s soul to the pharmaceutical company’s

    When we got hit by terrorism, American Senators Congressmen and a President.
    Committed the act of conspiring against the American people.

    When America was hit at 9-11, Congressman Armey from Tx added in the middle of the night. A rider, to the homeland security bill. It was protection, for Lilly Pharm the Maker and patent holder of the children’s vaccine preservative Thimerosal. It was known as, the Lilly rider. It was designed, to shield Lilly from all of the Thimerosal litigation.

    Six months after the Lilly rider was inserted, several Congressman said it was not fair because it was not voted in. So it was removed.

    The VSD (Vaccine Safety Data) base is where most of the vaccine as a cause for Autism Epidemiological studies originate.

    The CDC’s Dr Bernier has always maintained that the VSD was only full of good quality sound robust studies. Studies, that prove that vaccines are safe and do not cause Autism.

    On with the scandal, that has become a National disgrace.

    Next, setting President GW Bush moves to seal all documents in the VSD forever! Two Senators asked GW, why are you sealing what the parents need to prove their children’s cases for one. And why are you sealing them forever? Then they said, we want any and all communications between you and your staff and any of the Pharmaceutical Co’s.

    President GW Bush decides to not seal the VSD, but only after the threat to look at his relationship with the Pharma Co’s. He sends an order, to the HHS secretary Thompson and the U.S. Attorney Gen. Ashcroft. To not, seal!

    A little more time goes by, and Senator Frist with other Senators decide to go
    as low as a human can get. You see parents, they were going to use fallen American solders. To get their friends at Pharma, the protection that was needed to defeat Vaccine injured American children. I get sick to my stomach, when I am watching a Senate hearing. Hearings, where they refer to each other as Distinguished Gentleman. I don’t believe, that Distinguished Gentleman would use dead American Hero’s to be used in a very dirty scheme to disqualify severely Vaccine damaged American children from their Congressional created Vaccine compensation.

    Senator Frist,introduces Senate bill 3 that bill was to be known as (protecting America, from terrorism 2005) It on the face, looked like a very generous bill. Written, to benefit fallen American solder’s family’s. The Devil, was in the details. You see, in the back of the bill. Was, the same protection for Thimerosal litigation. It was to be used, to deny theseverely vaccine injured American children their vaccine injury compensation.

    Senate bill 3, gave HHS Tommy Thompson and Attorney General John Ashcroft complete control over all the Thimerosal vaccine litigation.

    Parents, Researchers, and some decent honorable Congressman got together and defeated the bill.

    Then some Republican Senators, released 10 shot gun bills, all with the same Thimerosal litigation protection as in beginning.

    In, the Lilly rider.

    There’s a Senator or a Congressman, that said that they are not going to allow these vaccine injured. To sue, the Vaccine Co’s out of business.

    No, they won’t do that. But! they will allow the Vaccine makers to get away with poisoning American children. And then, drive the American parents deep into bankruptcy.

    Question,if there was no children were harmed by Thimerosal. Why the circus acts, of Senators and Congressmen s jumping through hoops to protect Lilly? Lilly the creator,and patent holder of Thimerosal. If as Dr. Bernier said, there is nothing but good quality sound robust studies in the VSD. All proving,that vaccines are safe. And do not, cause Autism. Why the Presidential order, to seal all the documents FOREVER!

    I think those Senators,that tried to use our Fallen American solders in a scheme.
    A scheme, that was designed and planned out. Just to beat, our own American children out of there vaccine Compensation.

    They are worse than Traitors. Traitors, that should be tried in court.

  • ccdaddy

    Lilady Do you honestly think, that the parents who are reading this.That they cannot see you dodging the facts, that I have put out there. Facts, that are from the MSDS of thimerosal. Facts you cannot dismiss, because they are from the Manufacturers own scientific studies concerning their own product.

    I will ask again,is it fair to the parents. That those in vaccine safety, was allowed to do a very limited evaluation of Thimerosal? Again, it did not reflect the real life vaccine exposures of Thimerosal. So, why the very narrow pretend look at the IQ lowering
    very neural toxic compound. A compound, that was 50% mercury by weight.That was, so so foolishly injected into our children.

    Also, their very limited evaluation of that IQ lowering neural-toxin. It did not include, the real life Thimerosal & mercury body burdens of the expectant mother.

    Again, going back to our best source. (MSDS) A source proving, their innate lack of brain cells. Concerning, the health of our children.

    They were warned, to not mix it with aluminum. Why was the real life adding of aluminum, not evaluated in the study? Again, that can cause a 10 to 100 times toxicity increase.

    Why was not, the very clear warning on the MSDS not included in the studies evaluation where the manufacturer warned “if you are exposed to thimerosal,
    any future exposures can cause mercury poisoning” It appears, that in it’s self
    could have been a game changer. In their findings.

    If the original finding was 2.48 times risk, add 100 more to the amount prenatal (via flu vacc. and Rhogam) that’s 4 x 25 = 100 more before the baby takes it’s
    first breath of life. Add the fact that the, MSDS of thimerosal states that “pregnant women, are never supposed to be exposed to thimerosal ,for it can cross the placenta and go into the baby and cause mild to severe mental retardation”

    If Verstreaten had been true to the real life exposures, what would have been the risk? If 2.48 is .48 above legal, and they freaked out over that. At 162.5 what is the risk? A few months later, add another 7 vaccines all given at once at one point in time. Are we at, around 10 times risk. Now consider the toxicity increase,
    by a factor of 10 to 100 times. For the Aluminum synergy effect, of the two salts being mixed. What is the increase then? 25 times risk?

    My answer is, that many at the AAP CDC FDA would be jumping ship. Before they can be prosecuted, for the mass poisoning of our American children.

    • lilady R.N.


      Get some help for your fixation about the organomercury compound Thimerosal.

      Get an education in basic science (organic chemistry and inorganic chemistry), to learn the difference between organic mercury, inorganic mercury and elemental Hg.

      Here again, for the umpteenth time, is the statement in support of Thimerosal used as a preservative in multi-dose vaccine vials, made by the AAP.


      Ban on Thimerosal in Draft Treaty on Mercury: Why the AAP’s Position in 2012 Is So Important

      Louis Z. Cooper, MD, FAAPa and Samuel L. Katz, MD, FAAPb

      “…..This commentary describes the circumstances that led to the
      1999 joint statement based on the personal observations at that
      time of 2 participants in the process: one who then was a member of the AAP Board of Directors (L.Z.C.) and one who is a former chair of both the AAP Committee on Infectious Diseases and the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices of the USPHS (S.L.K.). The rationale for the current AAP position is summarized by a commentary entitled “Global Vaccination Recommendations and Thimerosal” presented in this issue of Pediatrics.3

      The 1999 recommendations were written as a prompt response to findings from a broad Food and Drug Administration (FDA) review
      of the mercury content in biological products mandated by the Food and Drug Modernization Act of 1997. This review revealed that multiple vaccines used thimerosal (containing ethyl mercury) as a preservative in multidose vials and that the cumulative amount of mercury, when given according to the recommended immunization schedule at the time for young infants, could potentially exceed the US Environmental Protection Agency guidelines based on data for elemental, inorganic, or methyl mercury.

      The total amount of ethyl mercury did not exceed that of 2 other US federal guidelines, from the Agency for Toxic Substances Disease Registry and the FDA.4 All 3 guidelines included broad margins of safety. But the absence of clear data for ethyl mercury did not allow any assumption to be made about its safety. Data were not sufficient
      to explain the pharmacology or toxicology of this product or to compare
      it with that for the other mercury compounds. Specifically, no studies evaluated the safety or potential harm from the amount of ethyl mercury in the US infant immunization schedule.

      Other factors influenced the timing and detail of the joint recommendations: (1) Recognition that mercury levels might exceed
      even 1 government guideline was cause for concern. (2) Absent more specific data on the safety of ethyl mercury in the form of thimerosal, prompt public disclosure was warranted to protect public trust. (3) Ongoing hearings of a US congressional committee chaired by a legislator convinced that vaccines had harmed his grandchild were amplified by parents with similar views. (4) These allegations were receiving increasing media attention along with charges that the public health establishment was not fully transparent about the risks of vaccines.

      Once the FDA calculations revealed that even 1 federal guideline was exceeded, the AAP and USPHS were obligated to full public disclosure. With that disclosure, it was important to demonstrate a response that could prevent exceeding the guideline levels and also to continue to protect infants by still ensuring full immunization. The joint statement met those obligations while demonstrating an abundance of caution: putting safety first.

      The priority to “first, do no harm” guides all USPHS and AAP recommendations. Given the complexity of the science involved in making guidelines, the polarity between vaccine advocates and those believing their children have been harmed, the media’s attraction to controversy, and, in retrospect, inadequate follow-up education about the issues to clinicians and the general public, it is not surprising that the steps taken left misunderstanding and anxiety in the United States and concerns in the global public health community.

      Since 1999, studies to better understand the pharmacology and toxicology of ethyl mercury have documented the profound differences between ethyl and methyl mercury. In addition, efforts to find evidence of harm to children from TCVs, used globally for >60 years, have failed to reveal any such damage. This is in sharp contrast to experience involving methyl mercury, a documented serious neurotoxin.

      Had the AAP (and, we suspect, the USPHS) known what research has revealed in the intervening 14 years, it is inconceivable to us that these organizations would have made the joint statement of July 7, 1999. The World Health Organization recommendation to delete the ban on thimerosal must be heeded or it will cause tremendous damage to current programs to protect all children from death and disability caused by
      vaccine-preventable diseases.”

      Do you finally “get it” ccdaddy?

      You need to stop posting your inane repetitive comments on science blogs and get some serious help to learn how to accept your special needs child.

      Please stop labeling your child as vaccine-damaged. It is an abomination.

      • ccdaddy

        Again, for your handicap. Of a lack of comprehension. Inorganic is what Thimerosal turns into, after it enters the brain. Inorganic Mercury is the most damaging to the Mitochondria. The CDC was told, by 6 teams of Mitochondria specialist. That, Mitochondria problems are not rare at all. In fact, it maybe 1 in 50 that have the nuclear DNA for Mitochondria problems.

        The teams confronting the CDC, then said the possibilities for Autism then are staggering. An NIH paid study on baby primates, revealed that the ethyl-mercury not Methyl crosses the BBB easier than does the fish mercury. Last, the MSDS of thimerosal
        states “thimerosal is accumulative in the body, it targets the organs of the body,in particular the brain and the lining around the brain”

        The CDC and the AAP says, that Thimerosal does not cross the BBB at all.

        The NIH paid scientific study on baby primates, and the Maker of the preservative thimerosal disagrees.

        As far as the AAP fighting to keep it in, that’s easy. They are scared to death, that their reputations will be destroyed. If it, ever came out. That, they the great AAP had injected a generation of American children into oblivion. With massive amounts, of a known IQ lowering neural-toxic compound.

        That’s why, they have to keep it in the children. The numbers will fall, if they removed it from the children of the world. How would you explain,no more ADD ADHD Speech Delay or the biggest of all of their mistakes. The big elephant, in the room. Autism

        • lilady R.N.

          Get an education and get a J.O.B. to support your family.

          You really are in desperate need of professional help to effectively parent your special needs child, who is NOT vaccine-damaged.

  • lilady R.N.

    @ ccdaddy: You’ve already posted that same unscientific dreck, those personal insults and libelous statements, on a science blog 10 months ago…


    You’re a vile ignorant individual who haunts science blogs with your spamming nonsensical comments, because you are unable to accept your special needs child because you have a sense of entitlement, expecting that the Vaccine Court will pay you to care for that child who is not in any way “vaccine-damaged”.

    Just go away now, ccdaddy, JoJo, or whatever sock puppet you use. I feel dirty just reading your comments.

    • ccdaddy

      You should fell dirty, every time you cash that pharma ck for trying to discredit parents dealing with vaccine derived Autism.

      You say your a nurse. Ok, do you take your flu shots?

      What do you think, of the largest nurses organization fighting mandatory flu shots for nurses?

  • ccdaddy

    This is the biggest, crock of propaganda I have ever read. When these cowards, first found out they exceeded the federal guidelines. They put a researcher to work,Dr.Verstreaten checking if they did damage or not. With his work completed,
    the cowards scurried off to a secret meeting at Simpsonwood retreat in norcross GA . They met there that day, with only one concern. The concern, that they all could be sued. In other words, the cowards were worried they would not be able to defend against a vaccine injured American child. Now that’s, real integrity. No, that’s a National disgrace. Starring cowards, meeting at a retreat to discuss how they could keep. Little vaccine injured American children, from getting any of their Congressional created NVICP compensation. Compensation, that they were entitled to.

    In fact, I hope you can defend of what appears to be a meeting of the FDA CDC AAP and the vaccine Co’s. To hide, the possible mass poisoning of the American children. All at this meeting,plotting to defraud the American people.When they got through,with their meeting. Everything, that was said that was bad news for them at that meeting. Was stricken, from the minutes. Where they had concerns, they were told to consider everything as embargoed information.

    That Once the FDA calculations revealed that even 1 federal guideline was exceeded, the AAP and USPHS were obligated to full public disclosure. With that disclosure, it was important to demonstrate a response that could prevent exceeding the guideline levels and also to continue to protect infants by still ensuring full immunization. The joint statement met those obligations while demonstrating an abundance of caution: putting safety first.

    The priority to “first, do no harm” guides all USPHS and AAP recommendations. Given the complexity of the science involved in making guidelines, the polarity between vaccine advocates and those believing their children have been harmed, the media’s attraction to controversy, and, in retrospect, inadequate follow-up education about the issues to clinicians and the general public, it is not surprising that the steps taken left misunderstanding and anxiety in the United States and concerns in the global public health community. Lilady that behavior, does not smack as being transparent. It does look like, a conspiracy to cover up.

    Here is the lead Dr. Dr. Johnston, pg. 14-15 & 19-20: (Chair of the meeting and a pediatrician-immunologist at the University of Colorado): “Thimerosal is cleaved (in the body) into ethylmercury and thiosalicylate which is inactive… The data on its toxicity (shows) it can cause neurologic and renal toxicity, including death.”

    “It is particularly a concern in multi-dose vials because of the issue of re-entry multiple times in the vials, and it is also important in the manufacturing process for a number of vaccine including inactivated influenza and some of the earlier DPT vaccine, and is a constituent of all DPT vaccines, but not all DTAP vaccines.”

    You did get that Lilady, here it is again “Thimerosal is cleaved (in the body) into ethylmercury and thiosalicylate which is inactive… The data on its toxicity (shows) it can cause neurologic and renal toxicity, including death.”

    Dr. Weil, pg. 24: “I think it’s clear to me anyway that we are talking about a problem that is probably more related to bolus acute exposures, and we also need to know that the migration problems and some of the other developmental problems in the central nervous system go on for quite a period after birth. But from all of the other studies of toxic substances, the earlier you work with the central nervous system, the more likely you are to run into a sensitive period for one of these effects, so that moving from one month or one day of birth to six months of birth changes enormously the potential for toxicity. There are just a host of neurodevelopmental data that would suggest that we’ve got a serious problem. The earlier we go, the more serious the problem.”

    Remember Lilady, me talking about the MSDS under re-activity data. The Mercury mixed, with Aluminum you made fun of.

    Dr.Weil Pg.24

    “The second point I could make is that in relationship to aluminum, being a nephrologist for a long time, the potential for aluminum and central nervous system toxicity was established by dialysis data. To think there isn’t some possible problem here is unreal.”

    Dr. Brent, pg. 161: “Wasn’t it true that if you looked at the population that had 25 micrograms you had a certain risk and when you got to 75 micrograms you had a higher risk.”

    They found, the more Mercury, the more risk!

    Dr. Verstraeten, pg. 161: “Yes, absolutely, but these are all at the same time. Measured at the same age at least.”

    Dr. Brent, pg. 161: I understand that, but they are different exposures.”

    Dr. Verstraeten, pg. 161: “Yes.”

    Dr. Brent, pg. 161: “What is your explanation? What explanations would you give for that?”

    Dr. Verstraeten, pg. 161: “Personally, I have three hypotheses. My first hypothesis is it is parental bias. The children that are more likely to be vaccinated are more likely to be picked and diagnosed. Second hypothesis, I don’t know. There is a bias that I have not recognized, and nobody has yet told me about it. Third hypothesis. It’s true, it’s Thimerosal. Those are my hypotheses.”

    Dr. Brent, pg. 161: “If it’s true, which or what mechanisms would you explain the finding with?”

    Dr. Verstraeten, pg. 162: “You are asking for biological plausibility?”

    Dr. Brent, pg. 162: “Well, yes.”

    Dr. Verstraeten, pg. 162: “When I saw this, and I went back through the literature, I was actually stunned by what I saw because I thought it is plausible. First of all there is the Faeroe study, which I think people have dismissed too easily, and there is a new article in the same Journal that was presented here, the Journal of Pediatrics, where they have looked at PCB. They have looked at other contaminants in seafood and they have adjusted for that, and still mercury comes out. That is one point. Another point is that in many of the studies with animals, it turned out that there is quite a different result depending on the dose of mercury. Depending on the route of exposure and depending on the age at which the animals, it turned out that there is quite a different result depending on the dose of mercury. Depending on the route of exposure and depending on the age at which the animals were exposed. Now, I don’t know how much you can extrapolate that from animals to humans, but that tells me mercury at one month of age is not the same as mercury at three months, at 12 months, prenatal mercury, later mercury. There is a whole range of plausible outcomes from mercury. On top of that, I think that we cannot so easily compare the U.S. population to Faeroe or Seychelles populations. We have different mean levels of exposure. We are comparing high to high in the Seychelles, high to high in the Faeroe and low to low in the U.S., so I am not sure how easily you can transpose one finding to another one. So basically to me that leaves all the options open, and that means I can not exclude such a possible effect.”

    Dr. Brent, pg. 229: “The medical/legal findings in this study, causal or not, are horrendous and therefore, it is important that the suggested epidemiological, pharmacokinetic, and animal studies be performed. If an allegation was made that a child’s neurobehavioral findings were caused by Thimerosal containing vaccines, you could readily find junk scientist who would support the claim with “a reasonable degree of certainty”. But you will not find a scientist with any integrity who would say the reverse with the data that is available. And that is true. So we are in a bad position from the standpoint of defending any lawsuits if they were initiated and I am concerned.”

    This is what they were worried about, “So we are in a bad position from the standpoint of defending any lawsuits if they were initiated and I am concerned.”

    Dr. Koller, pg. 192: “…As you increase the vaccination, you increase effects, but you don’t know. You have modified live viruses. You have different antigens. There is a lot of things in those vaccinations other than mercury, and we don’t know whether this is a vaccination effect or a mercury effect. But I am almost sure it is not a mercury effect. Positive as a matter of fact, and there are several experts particularly that have reviewed this, the methylmercury aspect who would agree with that due to dose response.”

    I like this one, it says “that there are several experts particularly that have reviewed this, the methylmercury aspect who would agree with that due to dose response.”

    Would he feel that way if the study included the real dose response. Adding 100 more micro-grams (via flu and Rhogam) before the baby has taken his first breath.

    Then add the real toxicity up, by including the Mercury being mixed with the Aluminum.

    Just think, these people you look up to pulled all this out of the minutes. Before sending it, to their own committee.

    This was a murder trial, with no possibility of a conviction. Any evidence they had, was watered down by a non real exposure to Thimerosal. And then, all the professional witnesses that where interviewed were told. So to basically consider this embargoed information.

    Dr. Bernier, pg. 113: “We have asked you to keep this information confidential. We do have a plan for discussing these data at the upcoming meeting of the Advisory Committee of Immunization Practices on June 21 and June 22. At that time CDC plans to make a public release of this information*, so I think it would serve all of our interests best if we could continue to consider these data. The ACIP work group will be considering also. If we could consider these data in a certain protected environment. So we are asking people who have a great job protecting this information up until now, to continue to do that until the time of the ACIP meeting. So to basically consider this embargoed information. That would help all of us to use the machinery that we have in place for considering these data and for arriving at policy recommendations.”

    If justice was served, these people would be doing time. Hard,time!

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