In Health Care Debate, Echoes Of History
From President Obama's efforts to push an agenda similar to that of Lyndon B. Johnson, to the Tea Party protesters' roots in pre-Civil War opposition movements, echoes of history resound throughout the health care debate. Peniel Joseph, a professor of history and politics at Tufts University, discusses the parallels with host Guy Raz.
GUY RAZ, host:
For more on the emotions stirred this week, we turn to Peniel Joseph. He's a professor of history and politics at Tufts University.
Peniel, welcome to the show.
Professor PENIEL JOSEPH (History and politics, Tufts University): Thank you for having me.
RAZ: Let me start with the president's speech on Capitol Hill Wednesday night. He staked a claim in that speech. He said he wouldn't back down on the issue of health care, almost implying that he will ram it through Congress with or without Republican support. That seems like a politically risky move for him to take.
Prof. JOSEPH: Well, it was really a necessary move to make because without passage of some kind of comprehensive health care reform this year, it's going to be really damaging to his young presidency this early.
RAZ: I want to ask you about the opposition to the president's health care plan and other parts of his agenda, Peniel. At his speech Wednesday night, we all heard South Carolina Congressman Joe Wilson shout, you lie, to the president in the middle of his speech. A lot has been made of Joe Wilson's outburst. Is too much being made of it in your view, Peniel?
Prof. JOSEPH: No, I don't think so. I think it's part of a larger pattern in terms of opposition to Obama. We've got the birthers who claim that the president is not a U.S. citizen. We've seen the tax parties, the tea parties. We see the 9/12 movement. And we've also seen the opposition to the president speaking before school children. So I think that this is part of a pattern that's not just uncivil, but there's really some underlying racial dynamics here where part of the groups who are being cultivated here really have a problem with who the president of the United States happens to be.
RAZ: But isn't there a danger in caricaturing some of these protestors in sort of saying they feel threatened by President Obama and his agenda?
Prof. JOSEPH: There was always that danger, but when we look at what Congressman Wilson said and the level of uncivility and really the level of vitriol and, at times, hate language and hate speech that the protesters themselves use, we can discern that it's not just the policies that they're opposed to. They're actually opposed to the person as well, largely because he happens to be African-American.
RAZ: You've studied and written about American protest movements. Put what we're seeing now into context for us.
Prof. JOSEPH: Well, what we're seeing in a way recalls what people call Calhoun Conservatism for the South Carolina Senator John C. Calhoun who really in the 1830s had his own vision of the way in which American democracy was going to look.
And his vision of American democracy was less expansive than Andrew Jackson. It was less expansive than the more progressive elements in the country. It was a vision that didn't include freedom for African-Americans. It didn't include robust and expansive rights. And when we think about the way in which these modern Calhoun conservatives are using the notion of American democracy, it's really a government that has very, very little control and responsibility over most American citizens.
They're using things like they're talking about the 10th Amendment and nullification. And nullification was used during the period of antebellum slavery, the notion that states have the right to prevent the federal government from impinging on their own autonomy and rights to own slaves. So what's interesting here is that their vision of American society, American democracy actually harkens back to the antebellum period in American history.
RAZ: And is Obama looking to the past for guidance on how to deal with his agenda now?
Prof. JOSEPH: Absolutely. In 1965, Lyndon Baines Johnson was president of the United States in his own right after the 1964 election, and this comes in the aftermath of John F. Kennedy's November 22nd, 1963 assassination. He utilizes all of his skills to enact the great society. So we see the passage of Medicaid, and on August 6, 1965, we see the passage of the Voting Rights Act, which for the first time ends poll taxes and all other kinds of restrictions and it really allows for African-American citizenship, especially in the Deep South.
RAZ: And he does this all in one year.
Prof. JOSEPH: All in one year. Many of the opposition at the time felt that Medicaid was socialism. But Johnson used both the country's remorse about the assassination of JFK and really the hope that was really inspired in the 1960s by President Kennedy and notions of civil rights to push through a comprehensive legislation all in one year.
RAZ: Peniel Joseph is a professor of history and politics at Tufts University and the author of the forthcoming book "Dark Days, Bright Nights: From Black Power to Barack Obama."
Peniel, thanks so much.
Prof. JOSEPH: Thank you for having me.
(Soundbite of music)
GUY RAZ, host:
For more on the emotions stirred this week, we turn to Peniel Joseph. He's a professor of history and politics at Tufts University.
Peniel, welcome to the show.
Professor PENIEL JOSEPH (History and politics, Tufts University): Thank you for having me.
RAZ: Let me start with the president's speech on Capitol Hill Wednesday night. He staked a claim in that speech. He said he wouldn't back down on the issue of health care, almost implying that he will ram it through Congress with or without Republican support. That seems like a politically risky move for him to take.
Prof. JOSEPH: Well, it was really a necessary move to make because without passage of some kind of comprehensive health care reform this year, it's going to be really damaging to his young presidency this early.
RAZ: I want to ask you about the opposition to the president's health care plan and other parts of his agenda, Peniel. At his speech Wednesday night, we all heard South Carolina Congressman Joe Wilson shout you lie to the president in the middle of his speech. A lot has been made of Joe Wilson's outburst. Is too much being made of it in your view, Peniel?
Prof. JOSEPH: No, I don't think so. I think it's part of a larger pattern in terms of opposition to Obama. We've got the birthers who claim that the president is not a U.S. citizen. We've seen the tax parties, the tea parties. We see the 9/12 movement, and we've also seen the opposition to the president speaking before schoolchildren. So I think that this is part of a pattern that were part of the groups who are being cultivated here really have a problem with who the president of the United States happens to be.
RAZ: But isn't there a danger in caricaturing some of these protesters in sort of saying they feel threatened by President Obama and his agenda?
Prof. JOSEPH: There was always that danger, but when we look at what Congressman Wilson said and the level of uncivility and really the level of vitriol and, at times, hate language and hate speech that the protesters themselves use, we can discern that it's not just the policies that they're opposed to. They're actually opposed to the person as well.
RAZ: You've studied and written about American protest movements. Put what we're seeing now into context for us.
Prof. JOSEPH: Well, what we're seeing in a way recalls what people call Calhoun Conservatism, for the South Carolina Senator John C. Calhoun who really in the 1830s had his own vision of the way in which American democracy was going to look.
And his vision of American democracy was less expansive than Andrew Jackson. It was less expansive than the more progressive elements in the country. It was a vision that didn't include robust and expansive rights. And when we think about the way in which these modern Calhoun conservatives are using the notion of American democracy, it's really a government that has very, very little control and responsibility over most American citizens.
RAZ: Is Obama looking to the past for guidance on how to deal with his agenda now?
Prof. JOSEPH: Absolutely. In 1965, Lyndon Baines Johnson was president of the United States in his own right after the 1964 election and this comes in the aftermath of John F. Kennedy's November 22nd, 1963 assassination. He utilizes all of his skills to enact the great society. So we see the passage of Medicaid, and on August 6, 1965, we see the passage of the Voting Rights Act, which for the first time ends poll taxes and all other kinds of restrictions.
RAZ: And he does this all in one year.
Prof. JOSEPH: All in one year. Many of the opposition at the time felt that Medicaid was socialism. But Johnson used both the country's remorse about the assassination of JFK and really the hope that was really inspired in the 1960s by President Kennedy and notions of civil rights to push through a comprehensive legislation all in one year.
RAZ: Peniel Joseph is a professor of history and politics at Tufts University and the author of the forthcoming book "Dark Days, Bright Nights: From Black Power to Barack Obama."
Peniel, thanks so much.
Prof. JOSEPH: Thank you for having me.
(Soundbite of music) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright National Public Radio.
