This episode is a sign from the universe

Manifestation, astrology, tarot — during tumultuous times, people are more likely to look for answers from the universe, and social media has caught on. People are manifesting their luck with the mantra "delulu is the solulu," and TikToks are claiming they know what the future stores for people scrolling by.

In this episode of Endless Thread, Ben Brock Johnson, Amory Sivertson and producer Grace Tatter look into the difference between signs from the universe and signs from an algorithm...and why signs from either are so likely to feel true.

Show notes

This content was originally created for audio. The transcript has been edited from our original script for clarity. Heads up that some elements (i.e. music, sound effects, tone) are harder to translate to text.

Grace: Hey y'all.

Ben: Hey Grace.

Amory: Hey Grace.

B: Producer Grace Tatter is in the driver’s seat today. Me and Amory are just passengers as she looks into her Endless Thread episode crystal ball.

Grace: So I have some bad news.

Ben: Oh no.

Grace: As we record this, Mercury is about to go into retrograde.

Ben: Oh man. I thought this just happened.

Grace: Our workflow is very sensitive to Mercury's placement.

Ben: It's true.

Grace: Something else I've observed during Endless Thread meetings is that some of us are getting a lot of astrology on our socials, some of us know when Mercury in retrograde is happening, and some of us are not.

Amory: I'm not. I don't know anything about this.

Ben: I'm also not. But I do pay attention to the ebbs and flows, like I feel like there are a couple of times a year when everyone hates me and I just know when that's gonna happen. So like I just try to pay attention to that and like, do my best to be slightly less annoying during those times.

Amory: Is that when you bring in doughnuts? Is that why you do that?

Ben: It is.

Grace: I am in the camp that, my TikTok, Instagram, everything does tell me when Mercury is in retrograde. I get a lot of astrology content. I'm representative of a larger trend. A lot has been written to suggest that in times of tumult, people are more likely to turn to the metaphysical, things like astrology or the occult. And I'd say the last few years have been kind of nonstop tumult. So this has gotten a lot more popular.

Ben: Yeah. If I had a dollar for every time over these last few years I gutted a chicken, you know what I mean?

Amory: What?

Grace: What?

Ben: I don't know, that seems to be the, something in the, that seems to be in the occult zone. I'm just kidding, I don't, I've never gutted a chicken and never will. But, you know what I mean.

Amory: No, we didn't know what you meant.

Ben: My occult, my occult friends out there know what I'm talking about. Even if you two don't.

Grace: That is not something I've seen on my FYP. Mostly this has manifested, no pun intended, in astrology apps like CoStar um, you can now put your star sign on your Hinge profile. There are lots of astrology meme accounts, and this concept of manifestation has come back into vogue. I feel like this was like a generational thing, like there was like The Secret, I don't know, whenever that book came out a long time ago, this idea that you can kind of work with the universe to will things into existence

Ben: Are we manifesting? Okay.

Grace: Exactly. Yes. Last year this had the term, Lucky Girl Syndrome, This year it's “Delulu is the Solulu.”

Ben: Delulu is the Solulu?

Amory: What?

Grace: Delulu is short for delusional.

Ben: Mm.

Grace: Solulu, short for solution. So it's like, being delusional is the solution.

Amory: So what does that mean? Being delusional is the solution to what?

Grace: So it's like, reach for the stars, but it's also a lot of this belief in like, looking from signs from the universe, like, a lot of times if you're paying attention, if you're really in tune, you're going to see messages that, I don't know, empower you to be your best self. Or something.

Ben: Right. Or help you understand what's happening so that you can avoid the worst of it.

Grace: Exactly. So astrology has definitely exploded on the internet in the last few years. And a lot of that seems to be driven by, and posted on, social media sites.

Often by particular astrology accounts…which are getting more and more common and also just stranger and stranger. There's a lot of these accounts that claim to be kind of helping people see signs from the universe or tap into these other frequencies.

Ben: In other words, increasing the delulu in the world.

Grace: Perhaps, perhaps. So I'm going to show you an example from a popular TikTok account called Love Exist Visions, which often features tarot cards. Have y'all ever done tarot before?

Ben: My wife won't let me.

Amory: Really? Say more.

Ben: Something happened, like, her mother went to a, a tarot card reader, or a fortune teller, and a bunch of the stuff that she said that was, like, not great came true. So, like, my wife is like, no.

Grace: So she thinks it was negative manifestation?  Like if she hadn't gone, none of those things would have happened.

Ben: It's bad vibes. Stay away from it.

Amory: Huh. I've kind of always wanted to, but I haven't.

Grace: I have. I'm unapologetically curious about these sorts of things, and for people who haven't, what you have is a deck of tarot cards. Each suit has 14 different symbols, and if someone is reading your cards, they'll do a spread, and each card in the spread has some significance. I've had people read tarot for me before and it's often kind of interactive, like they'll ask questions about what you're struggling with or a decision you're trying to make, something like that so it's kind of like therapy or fortune tellingm or in Ben's family's case, a curse, I guess it could be, but on TikTok it's different, right, because thousands of people are seeing the same interpretation. Like, there's not that, like, individual interactive element.

So there's this account, Love Exists Visions, and it shows you a tarot card and an interpretation, and the idea is that if it shows up in your FYP, on your For You Page, it's a sign. It's meant for you and all the other people who see it. So I'm gonna show you this example. Let's see if this works.

[TIK TOK AUDIO: Someone you've been trying to manifest is going to reach out to you unexpectedly. I feel like this person is coming in now because they finally feel prepared to, they always wanted you. They just didn't feel ready.]

Ben: I mean, it's basically just like a bite-sized tarot card reading excerpt. Right? It's basically saying, like, if this pops into your feed, which is, that's a decision made by ones and zeros,then that means it's meant for you, I think that's super interesting that people are basically like, Oh, it's just the magic inside of the computer that gives me this tarot card reading. That's bizarre.

Amory: Well, but are people actually acting on this? Do we know? Are people – I didn't look at any of the comments.

Ben: Of course they are.

Grace: Yeah, if you look at the comments, there's a lot of comments that are, like, in the genre of, like, yes, I believe, yes, I claim this. And you're right, Ben, I don't think that they're taking this as a sign from the algorithm, like, I think that they're taking this as a sign from the universe, something more random, something more coincidental, something maybe more powerful, but they do seem to believe it.

I'm going to send y'all another, another video that I would say is so exaggerated it seems almost like a parody. It's from an account called 1111 angel numbers. And angel numbers, that's the idea like if you see like numbers that repeat, that that's a sign from the universe. So if you happen to look at the clock at like 11:11 is the common one.  It's a thing.

Ben: 4:20

Grace: That’s another thing.

Amory: No, that’s the devil’s lettuce number.

Grace: OK, so I’m going to have you guys look at this one.

[Tik Tok audio: As you sleep tonight, expect a big change. Don’t ignore this.]

Amory: Oh God, this is poison.

Amory: It's money scantily clad women, and, yeah, like stacks of, stacks and stacks of hundred dollar bills.

[Tik Sound: Interact more with this video for greater abundance.]

Amory: This is like TikTok's version of Boomer, like the Boomer Facebook messages that are like, “send this to five people for a surprise,” you know?

Ben: I remember these emails. I hated these emails.

Amory: That's right, they started as emails, as like, chain emails. Forward to five people

Ben: Yeah.

Amory: And your wish will come true.

Ben: Or else!

Grace: Totally, but once again, there's almost a thousand comments on this video that are some version of, “I believe in this.”

Ben: Grace, Grace, I don't want to see this, Grace. You're bumming me out Grace. I spend most of my day blissfully walking around being like, “Humans are smart, people are smart, young people, they're nice, they're good.” Now you're just making me be like, uh, everything is terrible.

Grace: I'm the bearer of bad news. I'm telling you about Mercury. I'm telling you about the people who believe that $500,000 is going to show up on their bank account if they engage with a TikTok. But, to your point, yeah, the thing about TikTok or Instagram or any app is nothing is random at all, it's an algorithm, and even though these algorithms can feel otherworldly, like, they're reading our minds, TikTok is getting all sorts of data from other websites that those people have visited, how long they're engaging with other content, etc, etc. that's what's determining what's going to end up in their feed, not the universe.

Ben: Yeah, I mean, now I'm gonna, um, there's gonna be a lot more Delulu in my TikTok feed now, I can tell.

Grace: Sorry about that.

Well, I'm going to tell you more about why some of us are so prone to believe in this type of thing after the break.

(Sponsor break)

Amory: Okay, Grace, so before we recorded, you asked us for our birthdays, the time we were born, and where we were born. Which I'm guessing has something to do with astrology?

Grace: Yes, this is a – You need this information to know, like, your more detailed horoscopes. So, like, the day you're born, that's your sun sign, but then these other things are your moon… Wow, people are going to get mad at me about this. It's important. It's important. Trust me.

Ben: So I have here in the studio, a fireproof box, which everyone should have in their house.

Amory: Oh, you're going to pull out, you're going to pull out the sacred document?

Ben: In this box are passports. Treasure map, um, photos from my male modeling career as a, as a, as a thumb model. And, I think my birth certificate is in here.

Grace: Oh, yeah, because the piece of information we were missing was the time Ben was born.

Ben: I think it's in here.

Amory: We're on the edge of our seats waiting to find out what time of day you were born.

Ben: State of Vermont, 11:40 a.m.

Grace: A. M. Okay. Okay, so, I now have taken that input and have some metaphysical results on your behalf. So I'm going to read you each something about yourselves, and I'm curious if it resonates. Who wants to go first?

Amory: I'll go.

Grace: Okay, Amory, this is yours. ‘You're characterized by a balanced and easygoing demeanor. Life for you is about maintaining a sense of equilibrium, avoiding unnecessary extremes. You tend to go with the flow, adapting to situations without getting overly caught up in the highs or lows. In social interactions, you're affable and approachable, making it easy for others to connect with you. While you may not seek the spotlight, your friendly and amiable nature draws people toward you.” Does that resonate?

Ben: I think it does.What's missing from this in my mind, Amory, is that you are affable and chill, but also in the background, you're, like, secretly nervous about stuff, which makes you a good producer. Does that make sense? You're actually not that chill about stuff that matters, but people don't realize it. People don't realize it. They, they think you're super chill, but in the background, you're like the beautiful mind meme. I also think that you're – your kindness and affable nature, like you don't seek the spotlight, but the spotlight rests upon you because people are drawn to you. I think that's true.

Amory: The go with the flow thing, I think, is very much, like, I do not feel strongly about, are we doing this or are we doing that. It's like, if we're, if the group is happy, I'm pretty happy.

Ben: A phrase that Amory has coined in my life is, “I don't feel a way about it.”

Amory: I don't feel a way about it. Yeah. I feel a way about us being in harmony and having a good time, and I don't feel a way about how we achieve that. Okay, I accept. I accept this, this analysis, even if it feels weird to think about yourself in a, in that kind of a way.

Grace: Okay, so now I'm going to read Ben's, and then I'll send that to you.

Amory: I'm very excited for this.

Grace: “Change is something you handle with a level headed approach, adapting as needed without unnecessary drama. You find comfort in routine and appreciate the simplicity of life's everyday moments. In the grand scheme of things, you're the steady force, providing a sense of reliability and dependability to those around you.”

Ben: That does not seem accurate. The last bit does not seem accurate.

Grace: You're a steady force. You're dependable. “Your practicality and down to earth nature are the cornerstones of your personality.”

Ben: Hmm.

Amory: That's true. That's true. All right. I feel, yes.

Ben: Amory has notes. Practical, no. Dependable, no.

Amory: Change is something you handle with a level headed approach.Change is something you handle with a level headed approach. Very true. I'd say. You know, like if we're, whenever we've been on a road trip and we hit some sort of a fork in the road, we can get past it pretty quickly.

Adapting is needed without unnecessary drama. Yep. You find comfort in routine and appreciate, appreciate the simplicity of life's everyday moments. Yes. Comfort and routine. Maybe you find comfort in routine. I don't, I don't necessarily –

Ben: You don't witness me having routine.

Amory: I don't feel, yes, I don't witness the routine in which you find comfort.

Ben: I think it's an interesting, you know, it's funny is it's an interesting statement because what I experience is, I'm always trying to achieve routine despite my fundamental nature. So I think like in a way that statement is accurate. Like I do find comfort in routine, but I often do not achieve routine. Does that make sense? I think maybe more accurate would be, “You constantly yearn for routine, but fail to achieve it.”

Grace: Nonetheless, we feel like both of these statements, they have some resonance, right? Does that feel right?

Amory: Yeah, yeah.

Grace: But I actually, so these statements, I actually just asked chat GPT to write generic descriptions of personalities. I did nothing with the birthday information that you gave.

Ben: Oh my God.

Amory: Yes! Grace! Well done!

Grace: And I do actually recommend you should, you should use the data that you gave me and get a real reading. It might be more accurate. That'll be the next conversation though.

Amory: Oh, so we're not going to find out our moons and our, whatever?

Grace: I can look those up for real for you guys after this because I definitely have a reference book for that. Um, but there's a psychological reason that these kind of generic descriptions of personalities resonate. Have you ever heard of the Barnum-Forer effect? Did you all take psychology in college?

Amory: I took it in high school. I don't remember that. Um, doesn't mean I didn't learn it. Just means I've forgotten it.

Grace: Totally. Well, I learned this last week when I was looking into this, from Wikipedia. But the Barnum-Forer effect is a psychological phenomenon that causes us to feel that certain descriptions are tailored perfectly to us. Not that you guys felt that they were tailored perfectly, but tailored to us even though they are in fact broadly applicable.

Ben: Mmmm.

Grace: So the Forer comes from a psychologist. He identified it in the 1950s. He had people take a personality quiz and then randomly assign them results like,”You have a great need for people to admire you,” or “You have a great deal of unused capacity that you have not turned to your advantage,” or, and this one confused me but apparently a lot of people felt it resonated, “Your sexual adjustment has presented problems for you.” I don't know what that means.

Amory: Wow, that could really, that could really mess someone up if –

Ben: It really could. They're like, are my adjustments wrong?

Amory: Yeah.

Grace: The 1950s were a different time.

Ben: Oh my God.

Grace: Because, yeah, even though these statements were assigned at random, most people said that they found them to be accurate. The Barnum refers to, so for Barnum effect, the Barnum refers to P. T. Barnum, the circus guy, because he used this kind of psychological phenomenon for entertainment, right?

So this is used to explain why people like myself are so drawn to astrology, personality tests, et cetera, et cetera, because we do feel that resonance, even if it's not actually grounded in reality, who's to say? And again, and I do want to say, like, I do love this stuff. I do actually differentiate, like, that second video I sent y'all that was so clearly driven toward clicks and, like, so clearly disingenuous.

I differentiate that between some of the, like, other tarot stuff, like, I think a lot of this is – who the heck knows, but, like, it's fun, it's not harmful, and it can help people get to new levels of self-knowledge.

Ben: Yeah, I think reflection is good. And like, openness is good. And this kind of stuff potentially inspires you to think about the way that you move through the world, and also, um, like, because it's coming from an omnipotent source in theory, or like a magical star, I don't have control over this source. I mean, I think there's some big problems with that, too, but I think thinking about, people who are generally open to this stuff are forced to be open to some new and different ideas about their own person by nature of the fact that it's sort of like an omnipotent source. Does that make sense?

Amory: Yeah, one thing that I feel like is a positive thing about astrology, or the way I've heard people talk about their astrological sign, is a little more self acceptance. Like, people taking their sign, what they've learned about their sign, and using that to celebrate that part of themselves, even if it's not technically considered a, a flattering trait, or it might be seen as like, actually, that might show some room for improvement. People are taking a little bit more pride in being who they are and I appreciate that about it. I mean, I'm always kind of like, all right, how, what can I do better, but I also can acknowledge, oh, well, if this, I actually don't know much about my sign, but the way that I've heard people talk about it is like, yeah, well, I'm a Leo, so there you go. You know, or that's the Virgo in me. That's the Scorpio in me. And I think. We are all so different, and so if we can kind of appreciate each other's differences and work with them, I think that is just how the world continues to go round. And we, we have to celebrate some of that and acknowledge some of it, you know?

Grace: Yeah, and I think a key word there is work. When people are using this knowledge to make active decisions or changes in their lives, I think it can be really productive. I think when you probably run into problems is when people are like, Well, I don't have to work because I, you know, my horoscope told me everything's going to turn out fine, so I'm just  going to like, kick back and relax because this video on TikTok told me if I share this, I'll make a bunch of money, so I don't have to worry about anything anymore. That's when it's problematic. But like, otherwise, and for most people, I actually think it can be a force for good.

Ben: Can I just follow up one thing about my birthday time?

Grace: Yes. Please.

Ben: I reached out to my family about – before I figured out where my birth certificate was. My phrase is gonna be Um, Palulu is the Solulu. Which is just to say, parents. My mom, I asked her what time I was born. And she said, “I remember lots of pink and blue clouds and lots of construction workers remodeling the hospital. So morning, early but not too early for workers. “

Grace: Hmm.

Ben: She was on it. She knew.

Grace: Well. Would the clouds be pink at 11:40 something?

Amory: Yeah, that's, I'm suspicious.

Ben: They might be. They might be. Why not?

Grace: It’s a nice image.

Ben: Yeah.

Grace: And I do find birth date, time, that kind of stuff. That's like a much more interesting mediator for this sort of stuff, then the zeros and ones, then for the algorithm. I think at the end of the day, I find that more magical than anything an app is going to spit out for me.

Ben: Thank God. Me too.

Grace: All that being said, if you have commented on one of these videos and have gotten $500,000 in your bank account, I'd love to know.

Ben: If you did immediately have a swimming pool and a random woman walking towards you the day after you tapped on the app, please get in touch.

Grace: Well, that's our sign from the universe that this conversation is over.

This episode was produced by me, Grace Tatter, Gemini, Virgo moon, Virgo rising.  It was sound designed by Pisces, Paul Vaitkus. Our resident Leo and Virgo are Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. In all seriousness, if you have strange stories about astrology and signs from the universe on the internet…please send us an email. Endless Thread at WBUR dot org. We’ll see you next week.